The burning question...

[Oil Beef Hooked]

Crystal Palace were deep in the mire when Pulis arrived, now they're looking good for survival.
Bristol City were deep in the mire when Steve Cotterill arrived, now they're looking good for survival

Both managers have had to work with the squads they've inherited and have only added a couple of players to improve results.

Ian Atkins had to work with the squad he inherited.

I don't believe CH has the motivational or tactical attributes required to be a manager. People keep talking about giving him time to build his own squad but he should be able to still get results with what he has. His record in the first 16 games is hardly inspiring.

Hargreaves = Saunders

Comparing the situation at Torquay to Crystal Palace and Bristol City = chalk and cheese

[BayGull]

CH said that he has a pool of players who are considered penalty takers and on the day its the one who's feeling most confident who takes it. Firstly, who decides who is most confident at the time? What if two or three players are all feeling confident? Do we then witness a comical "in fight"? Can just imagine what the radio/TV coverage would be like when thats happening. Jeff Stelling: "There's a penalty at Plainmoor/random away ground to Torquay and we'll go straight there when their players have stopped arguing about who's going to take it

Did the skipper even have a say in who was taking it? Is he one of said pool of penalty takers? As you rightly say CP Gull, it just stinks of total amateurism.

If a situation like that ever arose .. they would use ..

Rock-Paper-Scissors

I have seen them practising in training!!

[Oil Beef Hooked]

So because the posters on this forum came to the conclusion we were down, that was it? It was time to throw in the towel? Football fans can be pessimistic, some can even be stupid.

Eh! Who threw in the towel?

From memory there were 2000 or so hardy souls at Plainmoor yesterday. I'm sure they hadn't thrown in the towel.

[Fonda]

Eh! Who threw in the towel?

From memory there were 2000 or so hardy souls at Plainmoor yesterday. I'm sure they hadn't thrown in the towel.

Your insinuation appeared to be that because some Internet forum users had come to the conclusion in January that we were down, it was futile to expect anything else?

[Oil Beef Hooked]

I didn't insinuate anything other than to state a fact that there were a number of posters on this forum that could see that the writing was on the wall long before CH was here.

I also said that by giving AK the Spanish Archer, we gave ourselves a fighting chance of survival. Yes we employed a 'rookie' manager and took a gamble. That gamble has obviously failed, but I don't solely put the blame at CH's door for where we are.

[Fonda]

I didn't insinuate anything other than to state a fact that there were a number of posters on this forum that could see that the writing was on the wall long before CH was here.

I also said that by giving AK the Spanish Archer, we gave ourselves a fighting chance of survival. Yes we employed a 'rookie' manager and took a gamble. That gamble has obviously failed, but I don't solely put the blame at CH's door for where we are.

And I'd maintain it's largely irrelevant that a few Internet forum posters 'thought we were down in January'. Nobody is 'solely putting the blame at CH's door'. But some (and it appeared you were among them) maintain he doesn't have ANY responsibility for our current position. Many things have contributed to this absolute cluster-f*** of a season, and CH is part of that.

[Burnhamgull]

You can't just cherry-pick managers who have turned around a club's fortunes. What about Holloway and Solskjaer, both appointed the same week as Hargreaves? Millwall and Cardiff were just outside the relegation zones of their respective divisions but are now in the bottom three.

You cannot judge a manager after 16 games when he's only been allowed to make a couple of permanent signings. He's made mistakes and odd choices but this is his first job - a risk the board took which has backfired.

That's a fair point. The board have appeared erratic in each appointment. Lets not forget, Martin Ling was not on the shortlist but rocked up on decision day and got the job. Knill was appointed during the hysteria of staying up last season and Hargreaves appears to have been appointed off the back of fan pressure.

The recruitment process is flaky from the top down. Ultimately, this process is going to cost us our football league status and will also reduce the fanbase next season.

[tommyg]

I don't disagree with that, Burnham. The lack of 'football experience' in the boardroom has been our major downfall. Until this is addressed, I don't have much confidence that we will return to the Football League anytime soon.

[stefano]

However, I believe that AK's sacking was about 5 games too late. 5 games that could have made the difference.

Those 5 games did make a difference. Mr Knill achieved 7 points from them. Given that CH has failed to attain 7 points from a 5 game sequence then had Mr Knill been sacked 5 games earlier we would already be mathematically relegated rather than in reality relegated

[tomogull]

Alan Knill has to bear the brunt of responsibility for the mess that this season has been. He set the tone for a team that became accustomed to losing each week and as has been said before time and time again, once a team gets into the habit of losing, it is hard to break the trend. But there has been no improvement since Hargreaves/Hodges arrival. We've continued to play aimless football in the sky and team selections and players such as Chappell not even being in the squad have been bizarre. Saturday's penalty incident was totally gob-smacking. Even those of us who have risen to the heights of Division 6 of the South Devon league knew who our penalty takers were before we took to the pitch.

Hargreaves may justly claim that he failed to keep us up because of the squad he inherited but I feel that if he could have motivated and organised the players, there were players at the club capable of getting us to safety. We have to be patient and wait to see what squad Hargreaves puts together next season. But if we find ourselves struggling again as I fear we might, I hope Hargreaves will do the decent thing by holding up his hands and saying "This football manager's business is not what I expected and is not for me - I'm going back to criticising other managers on the tele - it's much easier ....... "