The burning question...

[Fonda]

Is any of this Hargreaves fault yet? I’m inclined to think he’s partly responsible for this absolute shambles, but I just thought I’d check with you fine people, as last time I checked it was still all Knill’s fault?

Greavsie has been in situ for 3 months now and we’ve played 16 games under him. Is it still too early to expect to see any positive signs? At what point does he have to accept some of the blame?

To refresh your memory, we’ve won 4 times under him. The team changes every week (with the only virtually permanent selections being Dale Tonge and Lee Mansell). He gave a contract to Danny Stevens. Jordan Chappell, our best performer in the first half of the season, can’t get near the team anymore. We’ve been paying a bloke called Cooper since January, and he’s only just approaching fitness now (in April, when it’s already too late for him to make any difference). He’s signed countless loanee’s, and given none of them enough time to even prove they weren’t good enough before replacing them. He signed a highly regarded striker from Spurs, and in his first start for us played him right wing (with Karl Hawley preferred to him up front). On top of all this, Dale Tonge apparently now takes our penalties! Is this a dream? Because poor performances and results I can accept, but we’re rapidly becoming a laughing stock and our club should never be that.

I’m assuming we’re still blaming Alan Knill - despite him being a bloke who’s not been near our club for 3 months, who has had a pretty positive effect where he’s currently employed. Because with Greavsie being a ‘club legend’ I don’t suppose we’ll be ready to question him for a while yet. I just thought I’d check…

[ferrarilover]

Sorry Shane, can we stop blaming Knill for the success Northampton are having. They're paying ten grand a week for 4 loanees. Today's starting XI at Torquay probably earn about £8000/week. It's got **** all to do with Knill (who I'm given to believe does little more than put out the cones for training) and everything to do with the fact that they're spending money like a lower end Championship club.

Matt.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Is any of this Hargreaves fault yet? I’m inclined to think he’s partly responsible for this absolute shambles, but I just thought I’d check with you fine people, as last time I checked it was still all Knill’s fault?

Greavsie has been in situ for 3 months now and we’ve played 16 games under him. Is it still too early to expect to see any positive signs? At what point does he have to accept some of the blame?

To refresh your memory, we’ve won 4 times under him. The team changes every week (with the only virtually permanent selections being Dale Tonge and Lee Mansell). He gave a contract to Danny Stevens. Jordan Chappell, our best performer in the first half of the season, can’t get near the team anymore. We’ve been paying a bloke called Cooper since January, and he’s only just approaching fitness now (in April, when it’s already too late for him to make any difference). He’s signed countless loanee’s, and given none of them enough time to even prove they weren’t good enough before replacing them. He signed a highly regarded striker from Spurs, and in his first start for us played him right wing (with Karl Hawley preferred to him up front). On top of all this, Dale Tonge apparently now takes our penalties! Is this a dream? Because poor performances and results I can accept, but we’re rapidly becoming a laughing stock and our club should never be that.

I’m assuming we’re still blaming Alan Knill - despite him being a bloke who’s not been near our club for 3 months, who has had a pretty positive effect where he’s currently employed. Because with Greavsie being a ‘club legend’ I don’t suppose we’ll be ready to question him for a while yet. I just thought I’d check…

I'm not blaming AK for this.

its down to hargreaves. sh*t team selections, shit tactics, sh*t loan choices - some who didnt even play, and of course the biggest floating cock-up, the contract for stevens.

he bigged himself up spotlight, slagged off AK and has now f**ked it up himself.

bad decision to give him the job.

[DevonYellow]

How dare you suggest it, don't you know we are not allowed to question Chris Hargreaves? He has been granted immunity.

In the same way Karl Hawley can do no good, he can do no bad.

As I mentioned on another thread it would be very interesting to hear Chris' verdict on an Alan Knill Torquay United side putting in such performances.

[ferrarilover]

Oxford lost over a million quid last season and they haven't built a new stand or basically a whole training ground.

Matt.

[DevonYellow]

Oxford lost over a million quid last season and they haven't built a new stand or basically a whole training ground.

Matt.

Fat lot of good those two things have done us. Can we actually use the training ground yet?

[Burnhamgull]

On a positive note, since Hargreaves left AFC Bournemouth, they're flying and after thrashing Leeds recently, they've beaten moneybags QPR today and sit only 5 points off a playoff place.

They must be very pleased.

[Dave]

Yep, indeed the training ground is one of the main reasons why we're going down, said it before will say it again, been involved in local youth football for 8 years, Seale Hayne was the former home of Newton 66 YFC, when the ground had a slope on it, it used to waterlog there used to be countless match's called off on that ground.

So what did TUFC do, yep, came along spent £200k building a retaining wall and levelling the ground, fine nothing wrong with that, what's the two things we didn't do, one, install any kind of fit for purpose drainage system at the training ground, so had to spend most of the season training elsewhere, clever, personally would never have thought of that. Tow make any money available for some players who would know how to use the training even if was useable.

Blinding incompetence from amateurs playing at running a professional football club, blame Alan Knill all you like, he was given peanuts, and when you pay peanuts you get monkeys, when AK was rightly sacked, the club went to new heights and replaced AK with a monkey, at least they cut the middle man this time.

[PlainmoorRoar]

I don't blame CH at all

Has anyone bar Pearce stood up and said yes I deserve a place in the first 11, to fight for the survival of the team who pay me?

No

[MidDevon]

Yes, Martin Rice

[Fonda]

It is a manager's job to get performances from players. Knill was criticised, and ultimately fired for his failure to do so...

EDIT: That doesn't read well. I'm NOT advocating sacking Chris Hargreaves. No manager should be fired until he's PROVEN to be completely unable to do the job. The jury is still very much out on CH. But he's made an awful start.

[Dave]

It is a manager's job to get performances from players. Knill was criticised, and ultimately fired for his failure to do so...

Your spot on Shane, never thought I'd say this, but the players are performing worse under CH by a country mile than they ever did under Knill. Team spirit, motivation, training, game tactics, down to the manager to get the best out of the players, Knill couldn't do and got sacked, Chris Hargreaves took over in January and has managed to do the unthinkable and drag our underperforming team further backwards and it's not his fault. Isn't life just great when your faces fits.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Your spot on Shane, never thought I'd say this, but the players are performing worse under CH by a country mile than they ever did under Knill. Team spirit, motivation, training, game tactics, down to the manager to get the best out of the players, Knill couldn't do and got sacked, Chris Hargreaves took over in January and has managed to do the unthinkable and drag our underperforming team further backwards and it's not his fault. Isn't life just great when your faces fits.

what joy dave/shane.

and posters on here said that AL was no good.

uhhmm.....

[Fonda]

what joy dave/shane.

and posters on here said that AL was no good.

uhhmm.....

The club made what they thought would be a 'popular' choice. I said it at the time. I'm not sure anyone at the club was convinced that CH would be an improvement. The Pop side was calling for Knill's head (because apparently 3 or 4 months is enough time for any manager to prove themselves?) and they knew Hargreaves would be welcomed by the masses. I voiced my concern then that he might have been on a short-list of one. Seemingly proven managerial ability is secondary in importance to popularity. We've got what we deserve.

[CP Gull]

Gutted to feel the way I do, but am really starting to question whether Greavsie is really up to the job. I love the guy and as I have stated previously I will aways be grateful to him... more than any other individual (with the possible exception of the Bristow family) for getting us promoted back into the League, but whilst you cannot question his attitude, desire and devotion, which he so ably showed as a player, it is unfortunately the case that a lot of different characteristics are required when you are a Manager ... particularly at L2 level.

Team selection seems to be all over the place (the starting line up was a whole lot different from what I would have have chosen and the constant changes cannot be doing anything for morale, and yet there are still a few that seem to always feature such as Mansell, Bodin etc. His substitutions are generally bizarre and often later than they should be and all too often don't actually change things tactically, when the situation clearly demands it:

Today, summed it up for me ... Dale Tonge who was largely at fault for conceding the penalty with his abject attempt at trying to block the cross ... stepped up to take the penalty. Seriously, what was that all about??? I would guess that if it was down to the fans he might quite easily have been 10th (or even 11th as personally I would have preferred Ricey over him) to take that penalty and yet up he stepped, personally I had my head in my hands before he took it and it was no surprise at all to me that he made a woeful attempt which was inevitably (easily) saved ... but where was the leadership from the Manager? Surely things as important as this should be decide BEFORE the game by THE MANAGER and NOT, as suggested by the Manager after the game in his interview with Radio Devon as just the bloke "who is most up for it". That is amateur in my opinion, and lacks professionalism.

The decision to replace, what were quite clearly our most effective players in the first half ... in both Cameron and Coulthirst, when we are chasing a WIN was baffling (at least to me) in the extreme.

Finally, please show some of that (famous) passion that you clearly had as a player. To see you spend most of the second half, with legs crossed, propped up against a fence, chatting to Robbie Herrera( when your Assistant was a good 10 metres away) was disappointing to say the least. Where was the passion?

I really do fear for our future now as I am not confident in the Manager being either ruthless enough to make the big decisions that will need to be made in the summer(regarding the retained list) and not only that but he clearly has a lot to learn in terms of selection and tactics. It is a joke when you hear him continuing to even entertain the idea of us staying up but I guess he is only saying that because he feels he has to when most of us gave up all hope after the home defeat by Accrington over a month ago.