PERCEPTION AND REALITY

fred disley · Post by **fred disley** » 20 Aug 2016, 20:47

If at the very least, we cannot take a point from a part time team that most of us would stake our salary on returning to the conference north at the end of the season then where do the most optimistic of our supporters see us taking points, from listening to the commentary we could have had four of five, we didn't, we do not have a finisher other than Williams and he cannot last 70 minutes without being subbed. Other managers will have seen the stats and he will undoubtedly be targeted to wind him up and get him booked, something in hindsight he manages to do quite easily, without help.
I listened to Dave Thomas who was doing the summarising stating that time and time again our players were taking five and six touches and ultimately losing the ball when the smart thing was to touch and go, now if the people watching the game could make the observation why wasn't the manager onto it as well.
We all hoped pre season that we would either finish mid table or if the gods smiled on us we would have a stab at the play offs, In hindsight its a shame that West Bromwich didn't take us to the cleaners because it would have immediately brought our expectations down to a sensible level.
There are those that take the view that we should at least wait until the end of next month before making season predictions, I disagree, we have to sort the squad out now. This is not about optimism or pessimism its about cold hard reality.
Perhaps we could ask Toddy to spend a few days with us while he is looking for his next job to see if he can offer a new perspective on things.
Being a manager is difficult enough, being a rookie manager of a struggling team must be doubly stressful, Not that he needs it, but Nicholson would earn respect from me if he asked for help now.

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 20 Aug 2016, 23:24

Whats Chris Todd going to do that Nicholson can't. Todd had a far bigger budget at Eastleigh and failed. He's a worse manager than Nicholson. The West Brom result is irrelevant because it was a friendly.

We can't "sort the squad out" because we have no money. Signing Western league players like Chamberlain will NOT improve things one jot.

The answer is to pick up points against fellow strugglers. Losing to shite like Sutton and North Ferriby will see us relegated because the team is nowhere near good enough to compete with better teams in this league.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 21 Aug 2016, 12:22

We've spent enough seasons in this league now to know that there are no good teams and bad teams. There are 'village teams' with millionaire owners punching above there weight and former league teams down on the luck struggling for scraps. Everyone can beat everyone else on their day. We've had a poor start but we will turn it around.

Post by **Dave** » 21 Aug 2016, 12:43

The biggest part of the problem has been the pre-season expectation of our fan base, it was quite frankly beyond delusional, you just can not lose the direct pace of Allen, the likes of MacDonald-Smith and Butler from the back line, and the calm experience of Racchi from the middle of the park, and expect to replace these players like for like with a 50p player budget, or expect results and performances to hit the same heights, pre-season results are meaningless.

Agree with the sentiment in Brucies post, but he then describes Sutton as Shite, again this is part of the problem with our fan base, we've got to stop looking back at what our club, once was, and start looking forward to try and find ways to fix the club and get back there. Just to point out, Sutton so far have beaten Lincoln 3.1, Macclesfield 2.0 and drawn 1,1 with FGR, it's not them who are shite, it's us, lets try showing some due respect.

In part I feel sorry for the current board, also in part I don't. what our club has become was beyond the current boards control, the previous board destroyed this club, and there currently getting away with it scot free, as we turn on Dave Phillips and co, the current board inherited the club, in the mess it is, they are doing their level best to stabilise the club.

But on the other hand, the current board haven't done themselves many favours either, they wasted the entire summer on G.I, and seem unprepared to talk to the fans right now, so they've lost a lot of goodwill. My message to Dave Phillips, and I know he's reading this right now, Dave Philips is a member of this forum, he has prior to becoming chairman posted on this forum and the other TU related forums.

Mr Philips it's not to late to repair some of that goodwill, you've got to do your bit, talk to the fans, work with the travel club as I see from Danny's post that's not happening right now these are the most loyal and hardened supporters the club has , your door should be open.

Feel sorry for Nicho as well, he proved he can mange a football club, he doesn't need help from outside, he needs support from with in. If you ask a tradesman to drill through 2 foot of concrete with a hand drill he's goings to struggle.

Kevin Nicholson is not just managing the team, he's managing the marketing of the club, he's managing the community aspect of the club, he's managing sponsorship and much more, Nicho is working tirelessly not just to keep the club afloat but move it forward, opening results have not been good enough, but Nicho deserves more support for what he's trying to do for the club, working of a player budget of around £400k competing with the likes of clubs who we think should be beneath us like Barrow and many others who are working of £1 million plus.

I'm one of the few who had my pre-season expectations in the right place, if we all can except no matter how hard it is going to be, what our club has become and are prepared to stick together, and stick with our club, brighter days will return. However with out new investment, it will take time, and it will be a slow burn.

We have to drop the arrogance though , just because we're ex football league we have no right to look at clubs like Sutton and think we should just beat them, you have to earn the right compete, Sutton have, we haven't.

gullintwoplaces · Post by **gullintwoplaces** » 21 Aug 2016, 12:49

Well said Forever. I agree with all your points.

Dutchgull · Post by **Dutchgull** » 21 Aug 2016, 12:50

Spot on mate !!

Lloyder5 · Post by **Lloyder5** » 21 Aug 2016, 12:56

gullintwoplaces wrote:

Well said Forever. I agree with all your points.

I also agree, with this post; realistic and constructive. One thing we don't need is supporters creating a toxic atmosphere.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 21 Aug 2016, 13:54

Forever is exactly spot on. The club has fallen and right now the lower regions of the conference is just about our natural level, and that is no fault of anyone currently in charge at the club.

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 21 Aug 2016, 14:18

Plainmoor78 wrote:Forever is exactly spot on. The club has fallen and right now the lower regions of the conference is just about our natural level, and that is no fault of anyone currently in charge at the club.

Rubbish! We can change that around by simply taking a leaf out of North Ferriby book; namely make TU a village team, move the ground to Cockington with in a make-shift 500 seat stadia. Rename ourselves Torquay Thatchers and Forgers, build up a squad of 14 part time player from the Devon & Exeter Football League, then sit back and enjoy us winning a match now and again, something our so called professional outfit seem unable to do. A least then every match we win will feel like a FA Cup Final.

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 21 Aug 2016, 14:29

A good post from Forever Tufc -

Sutton may not be shite but they have an advantage of playing on a pitch which other teams don't. North Ferriby are backed by a millionaire? Losing 6-1 to Lincoln shows up what sort of team they really are. They will get relegated - mark my words.

Irrespective of how poor are we still attract support which is bigger than three quarters of the other teams in this league. Every defeat is greeted by "the other team has a bigger budget" "they have a millionaire backer".

I don't believe that is true in the majority of cases.

However, if the board cannot even provide a coach for the players to travel to games then they are failing miserably. No other team in this league - even the poorest turn up in their own cars.

It is a complete disgrace.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 21 Aug 2016, 17:35

I agree that the transport arrangements are a joke / disgrace / embarrassment. It is insulting to the players. How on earth are we going to attract half decent players when they know this is going on? One thing the board could, probably should, do to try to restore supporter trust is to explain honestly why, with the size of our crowds, we are apparently such a financial basket case.

portugull · Post by **portugull** » 21 Aug 2016, 17:47

First class post forevertufc.

I feel sorry for Dave Phillips but I do feel strongly that it is madness to ask the players to drive 600 miles to play for a Full Time Professional Club.

Our opponents must love that!!

This policy has to stop.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 21 Aug 2016, 18:55

It's not just the size of our crowds compared with other National League clubs, though. We no longer (presumably) have anybody on gardening leave, and we have regular money (presumably) paid into the Players' Fund. Yet we cannot provide decent transport for the team. Our break even attendance figure is apparently around 2200, but other clubs get less than half the crowds we are getting, and seem to survive reasonably well. So, basket case or otherwise, just what exactly is being done with all the treasures (as compared with other clubs) we are amassing?

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 21 Aug 2016, 20:53

brucie wrote:A good post from Forever Tufc -

North Ferriby are backed by a millionaire? Losing 6-1 to Lincoln shows up what sort of team they really are. They will get relegated - mark my words.

Oh dear. Last game of the season - home to North Ferriby. Is the writing already on the wall for another relegation six pointer ? Personally, I think we will be okay ..... That's a great post from Forever

- I wish I could have posted it myself !

On another thread, Glostergull says that the chairman told him the break even 'gate' is 2200. I don't doubt Mr Phillips has got his figures right, but you have to ask why the average gate has to be 350 more than last season ? Last season, we were paying 'gardening leave' for Chris Hargreaves and Lee Hodges, this season we aren't. Last season we were paying a Chief Executive's wages, this season we aren't (but Gawd knows who is doing the work of a Chief Exec). And didn't we have to pay off £30,000 to Dean Edwards? Okay - we didn't pay Paul Cox and John Ramshaw whilst they were at Plainmoor and we have to repay a loan of £50,000 to G.I. and £20,000 was wasted on the disastrous Yellowfest debacle. In any case, it aint going to happen, is it? The only clubs whose gates will average more than 2200 are Tranmere, Wrexham and possibly Lincoln because they are predicted to do well. To expect a mid-table side ('cos that's where I think we will be) to attract the fourth highest average gate is pie in the sky.

Forever touched on communication between the Board and fans (including TUST). I'm sure David Phillips and the Board members are dedicated United fans, but since Steve Breed's departure (and Steve has never been adequately thanked for what he did to save the club), communication with fans has been non-existent. At least Mr Phillips puts his head above the parapet from time to time and it seems the other directors are very happy to let him carry the can as we hear nothing from them. For example, which of the directors is responsible for the finances of the club - a job carried out extremely well by Ian Hayman when he was a director for many years. Yes - there are many questions to be asked about the running of the club and I feel sorry for Kevin Nicholson as he does his best against the shambolic situation away from the playing field.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 21 Aug 2016, 21:10

Plainmoor78 wrote:Forever is exactly spot on. The club has fallen and right now the lower regions of the conference is just about our natural level, and that is no fault of anyone currently in charge at the club.

Nonsense, our natural level is towards the top of the Conference/lower half of League Two based upon our fanbase and attendances, with a well run club we can compete in L2, with a poorly run club we should be bumbling around in the mid table of the Conference at worst. The current Conference is a bit skewed in having Tranmere and Wrexham down here, both are which are clubs that should be competing around the upper end of L2 not where they are now, likewise when Bristol Rovers were down here last season.

The problem is the weird ongoing budgetary issue where despite having a top half average attendance even during the turd of a season that was last season, we can't seem to put out a top half budget. Even given our appalling commercial management and lack of utilisation of the existing commercial assets we should be able to do this. Last season was unique circumstance where we all know there were loads of liabilities hanging around, Chris Hargreaves getting a massive pay off, Dean Edwards getting a massive pay off. This season it's just baffling, the McDonald transfer alone should have wiped out the GI debt.

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