New Share Issue In Torquay United F. C.

[portugull]

In view of the severe shortage of cash at the Club I wonder if the Board of Directors have considered a New Share Issue.

As an example why not offer 75,000 shares at £1 each to attract investment in the Club.

I have not researched the legal issues but we all know the Board are very keen to attract investment.

As an example if 750 fans each subscribed for 100 shares the Club would would raise £75,000.

A special share issue, without voting rights, would ensure control remained with the current Board.

I suspect that the really keen fans would actually put up £750 and then the Club raises its target of £75,000 from just 100 investors.

I am not a shareholder so there may be some practical issues but I am confident these could be overcome.

What do fans think?

[CraigUnder]

I'd be interested in this but i'm not so sure it would come to fruition.

[portugull]

Why not Bleeper? What makes you think it is a non starter?

[chunkygull]

I have already raised this issue a few times, it is one of the reasons I started the IDEAS FROM SUPPORTERS TO HELP TORQUAY UNITED thread. - http://www.torquayfans.com/forum/viewto ... f=3&t=8310

It didnt get much response, which I have to admit was very disappointing as I strongly feel it is an avenue to create a revenue stream which is worth exploring, there might not be much interest, who knows, but I would really like to know how people feel about it, what would be the stumbling blocks and legalities? There are many positives to the idea I reckon, instead of a players fund which I know quite frankly some dont approve of, let people think they are actually getting something for their money by buying shares, the feelgood factor and sense of togetherness and community between club and fanbase could really be swelled as well as the balance sheet.

Heres what I wrote before. -

Post by chunkygull » 29 Aug 2015, 00:46

Right here goes, I'm fully expecting to get hammered and take some stick for this, plus get told I'm an idiot, told to shut up, told I don't know what I'm talking about, portrayed as a bit thick, accused of having a duuuhhh moment, and possibly getting my ass kicked. Sod it!

Been mulling this over for a while and have also seen a little mention of this idea elsewhere by someone else but it got missed and didnt get the sort of feedback like I actually felt it deserved. I have had a little look to find some info on this subject as to how it would work or whether its harmless or legal, but its clear as mud to me so ideas, knowledge and feedback please guys.

“ Instead of just asking for donations to a player fund to actively inject some much needed finance into the club coffers why not throw open to supporters a nice, simple, easy to understand, basic, cheap enough, sensible – share scheme.”

Going back a few months the old consortium were looking for a buyer, obviously that takes a lot of money – A group of supporters chucked in a reported 30k each - Dean Edwards after the new consortium took over said they were still looking for investors or investment if anyone is interested (that usually means one or two chucking in all at once a fair bit of wedge) – We have a supporters trust (TUST) trying to raise money through a monthly membership fee to gain some sort of position on the board or whatever their plans are for the greater good of TUFC – We now have the new board asking for a contribution from supporters to a player fund pot of money, which in effect is a charitable donation on top of what they already spend watching the team and buying merchandise etc, nothing wrong with that, the club have to try everything, but obviously the sort of money and uptake of support they need is unlikely to be enough for what is required.

So, when you buy a ticket, buy a shirt, scarf, programme or car sticker etc, you are putting money into the club to help and support them, in a round about way you are putting in investment but you are always getting something in return, with the player fund donations yes effectively it helps us have a better team but you aren't really getting much or something other than a thank you in return, not that supporters ever really expect much back other than a team that tries its best and gives its all. What supporters might open up to more and feel more willing to hand over their money to is an actual share scheme, the club needs money and investment, rather than going after a few people to put a lot of money in, why not go after a lot more people to put a little bit of money in at a time. So, the club sets its price per share keeps it very affordable and sensible, you offer them in the simplest, easiest, safest way to TUFC supporters, they hand over their money either buying shares monthly or as a lump sum as and when they can, and then they get little tiny pieces of the club they love, even if it doesn't mean much or have any effect on the running of the club or have much impact in the grand scheme of things or its just on paper etc, they feel great about having their little part of the club and it makes more supporters/investors/contributors want to contribute and buy their piece, they inject much needed funds to TUFC and its team and in turn it makes them feel closer to the club.

Without getting too excited we aren't talking fan ownership here or a TUST model, or the stock market, the board will still be the bosses/owners/control of the club, obviously unless someone eventually and affordably accrues enough shares of monetary value to earn a place, although that's highly unlikely as they would possibly have done that already. We could all become shareholders, even just on a very small scale, e.g at £5 or £10 a share you pay that then you own one share, you pay £10 a month, in a year you have 24 shares (just a theoretical figure).

look at it this way people are currently giving money to a fund either as a monthly direct debit or contributions here and there when affordable, how sustainable is that, how much interest is there for how long, is it really bringing in enough money? If you offered people shares in the club for that money, say they carry on contributing to it as they already are, you can pay a monthly direct debit or pay as you can afford and you get a share or 2 or 3 or 4 etc for that money, surely you would get more interest and uptake from the fan base, more supporters are likely to fork over the dough for the chance to be even the tiniest part of the club.

(Thinking about it I'm sure something like this sort of thing was mooted and very nearly did happen during Mike Batesons tenure just before he sold to Knoberts, but I could be mistaken.)

As I said I don't know the legalities, business protocols, how taxing would work (if at all) or how you could go about these things, but if you can say to someone come and invest in our club or come and put your money into our club, put your £x,ooo's in and be a board member, or say to supporters could you contribute some spare cash to the club, then as long as there is no harm, cost, or negative or complication to the running of TUFC then why cant each supporter no matter how big or small purchase a share, surely it shouldn't cost the club or do any harm in any way and the feel good factor and interest in it should be very positive, whilst giving TUFC a much needed cash injection.



I am sure there are many variations or scenarios in which way this idea could work, obviously I dont know much about these things but, if people can put funds into a trust group hoping they will eventually a long way down the line buy shares and get a place on the board or put towards buying the freehold of Plainmoor then why not go direct and raise badly needed funds for the club now and by buying into them in this way if there is this sort of fund raising scheme.

Anyway, thats one idea, I know you all have various thoughts so come on guys, its over to you.......

[york_gull]

A thought of mine....

I think supporters would be willing to give money to the club if they saw something in return. I know they will help secure the financial future of their club and I don't mean a monetary figure but an opportunity to have a say in the decisions that are being made.

Just out of interest - how much money has TUST raised and what % ownership of the club is necessary to get a position on the board?

[portugull]

Chunkygull I am sorry but for some reason I never saw your post.

To keep it simple perhaps Dave Phillips would like to respond to the suggestion of a New Share Issue.

Maybe it is a subject which would interest Dave Thomas at the Herald Express. Scope for an informed article.

The key point in my post is that the Shares be non voting Shares.

If it is a non starter hopefully Dave Phillips will explain why.

[chunkygull]

Oh crikey, dont be sorry, I wasnt getting the hump or being funny or having a pop or anything, just mentioning the post and suggestion I made before. Its probably a better idea to give the subject its own thread to highlight the idea, these things get lost among various threads at times, the first time I posted it was on the players fund thread. Its a thought that deserves a bit more consideration and debate along with hopefully a few answers as to how it would or wouldnt work.

So, if anybody who knows a bit about this sort of thing could give us a few answers it would be appreciated. Personally I think its a good idea and a way of going forward.

[davidcaldwell123]

Crowd Funding is another option, but needs to innovative and well thought out!

In view of the severe shortage of cash at the Club I wonder if the Board of Directors have considered a New Share Issue.

As an example why not offer 75,000 shares at £1 each to attract investment in the Club.

I have not researched the legal issues but we all know the Board are very keen to attract investment.

As an example if 750 fans each subscribed for 100 shares the Club would would raise £75,000.

A special share issue, without voting rights, would ensure control remained with the current Board.

I suspect that the really keen fans would actually put up £750 and then the Club raises its target of £75,000 from just 100 investors.

I am not a shareholder so there may be some practical issues but I am confident these could be overcome.

What do fans think?

[york_gull]

Speaking to the old man about this subject earlier he seems to think that there is a fairly simple solution.

Clearly the club is in dire financial straits and the only way that the board and current shareholders will be able to create any value in their investment is to attract new funds into the club. A call on the supporters of TUFC to inject cash into the club has its attractions. Whilst it is appreciated that the current owners may not wish to relinquish ordinary shares (with voting rights), the board could consider issuing say up to £100,000 of 'B' Shares (at say £1 each).

This will enable ordinary club supporters to buy these shares either at say a minimum of a £50 chunk or £10 a month over 10 months to acquire 100 'B' shares. Whilst these 'B' shares would not have any voting rights, in order to potentially provide some return to the supporters at some point in the future, it may be that a condition of the 'B' share issue that the owners commit to applying say 10% of the consideration from any future sale of the club to the 'B' shareholders as a return on their investment.

For example, if the current owners were to sell TUFC at some point in the future for $500,000, $50,000 would be attributed to the 'B' shareholders in recognition for the help and support to the club. The return to the 'B' shareholders would clearly increase pro rata in the event of the owners selling the club for in excess of £500,000 in some point in the future.

The amount of the 'B' share issue, share of any proceeds from the sale of the club in the future, etc. is open to negotiation, but the thoughts above provide food for thought if the board and current owners are serious about seeking financial support from the fans to help the club move forward.

What are peoples thoughts?

[Gullscorer]

The club is, I presume, a private limited company, not a public one whose shares can be bought and sold on the stock exchange.

Like the majority of supporters, I survive on a low income with very little cash to spare (I am able to donate £10 a month to the Players' Fund, and give what's left to charitable causes). And, not being in a position to invest in anything, I have little interest in or knowledge of shares.

But my feeling is that it's worth a try, rather like buying a lottery ticket. The club might hit the Jackpot, or it may be extremely lucky to win no more than £20,000. It would be a good idea first for the club to test the waters, and invite expressions of interest, though I have no idea as to the legal requirements.

[chunkygull]

I appreciate your point Gullscorer that you wouldnt have much to invest but currently you are giving a charitable donation to the players fund, buying shares in the ways suggested would be pretty much the same thing but you or many others would be getting something in return, even though it doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things and doesnt really cost the club anything it could produce more money than the players fund if people felt they were getting this opportunity.

Is the players fund going to be continuous or sustainable for the mid to long term, already a few have talked about stopping their donations for whatever reasons, with a flexible share scheme you could have a similar monthly standing order or a pay as you go or could afford. There are a few people who didnt like the idea of the players fund feeling it was just charity, a handout or whatever, but again there could possibly be a lot more people who would prefer this option and again it could produce a better feelgood factor and make supporters feel closer or more a part of their club.

Again, from original post about this-

We now have the new board asking for a contribution from supporters to a player fund pot of money, which in effect is a charitable donation on top of what they already spend watching the team and buying merchandise etc, nothing wrong with that, the club have to try everything, but obviously the sort of money and uptake of support they need is unlikely to be enough for what is required.

So, when you buy a ticket, buy a shirt, scarf, programme or car sticker etc, you are putting money into the club to help and support them, in a round about way you are putting in investment but you are always getting something in return, with the player fund donations yes effectively it helps us have a better team but you aren't really getting much or something other than a thank you in return, not that supporters ever really expect much back other than a team that tries its best and gives its all. What supporters might open up to more and feel more willing to hand over their money to is an actual share scheme, the club needs money and investment, rather than going after a few people to put a lot of money in, why not go after a lot more people to put a little bit of money in at a time.

[ferrarilover]

Chunkygull I am sorry but for some reason I never saw your post.

To keep it simple perhaps Dave Phillips would like to respond to the suggestion of a New Share Issue.

Maybe it is a subject which would interest Dave Thomas at the Herald Express. Scope for an informed article.

The key point in my post is that the Shares be non voting Shares.

If it is a non starter hopefully Dave Phillips will explain why.

Maybe if you send your idea to him directly, rather than posting it on an obscure corner of the internet that he's absolutely nailed on never to visit, he will?

I posted a thread on here three years ago, asking Bono why his baby looks suspiciously like The Edge. Never got a reply from him. Jumped up Irish ****.

Matt.

[taxilady]

Whilst I agree that something like this should be e mailed/phoned into the Club, you shouldn't assume that forums are completely unscrutinised Matt ! Postings from here can also be viewed on Twitter & I daresay that some things can be brought to the attention of............People are always forgetting that our Board are also bona fide fans as well. I'm not saying that Dave Phillips is a poster on here, but he probably has friends who are !! Now, Bono, on the other hand...

[tomogull]

Almost immediately after the Basingstoke cup defeat, it was suggested on here that the Wrexham match should be moved from a Tuesday night to Saturday as Wrexham also lost. Lo and behold, over a week later, the match was re-arranged as suggested. Co-incidence maybe ....... but maybe not.

[portugull]

I have very little doubt that my suggestion will reach the Chairman from one source or another.

There are too many people interested in our survival as a Club for this idea to go unnoticed by all of the current regime at Plainmoor.