Realism is needed!

[exiledgull]

Last three games

Win - 3-1 against Bury (low in league two)
Lost - 2-0 against Rochdale (3rd in league two)
Lost - 2-0 against Chesterfield (2nd in the league two)

It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that if we were to lose two games on the bounce that perhaps it should be against the top teams with better players , better budget more infrastructure and most importantly more money!

Yes I went to both defeats and yes it was bad both times but Downes gifted them yesterday's goal and he's our best player but no one comes on slagging him off and rightly so. It's not Knills fault he messed up just one of those things.

People say it's worse now under Knill than Ling, Ling had more money ! We could afford Howe! Knill couldn't afford to even offer him a deal.

The time is for realism, we aren't a huge club we are punching above our limits. Everyone is saying we're going down this is the first time this season we've been in bottom two. We've had serious injuries in defence and in most games we've been in with a shout.

We will struggle through the season and we all must be quietly confident of staying up quite comfortably. A win against accrington would mean our league form is WLW hardly relegation form!

Too many people panic straight away! This is not the way!

[AustrianAndyGull]

I take on board your post exiled and I respect and admire you in a sense as being the first one to openly come on and support Knill in the face of all the vitriol (deserved imo) aimed at him.

All I can say is I've seen 6 away games and in 80% of those we look like relegation candidates. We are worse at home apparently although I've not seen any of the games so that means we ARE relegation candidates and the table says that also. Blind faith is fine if you truly believe but I don't. I go on what has gone before and in 16 games and 3 cup it hasn't been very promising. I am not confident of beating Accrington or Plymouth or even scoring or playing half decent in those two games so how are we supposed to be confident about staying up?

Evidence on and off the pitch says the odds are against us to stay up and that is all we have to go on at the minute. Knill has the chance to get us out of the poo temporarily by winning the next 2 but will he? If he does then maybe your points hold some credence.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Oh and exiled, I sincerely didn't mean the first bit to sound patronising and apologies if it came across that way.

[brucie]

Are you actually insane. Rochdale and Chesterfield may be two of the better sides in league two. Rochdale came to us with a decidedly average away record. Chesterfield have failed to beat the last seven teams they have played. Given that the minimum to be expected is that we should be able to compete with the opposition. Not mustering a shot on target in two games tells its own story.
How on earth can you be confident that we will stay up - it is the manner of the way we are playing which is the cause for concern.
We have won ONE home game all season - knocked out of every cup competition in the first round - it is quite frankly nothing short of pathetic.
If Knill stays we are going down - we are relegation certs. You are in denial.

[PlainmoorRoar]

Chesterfield still have a VERY good squad and that team have now won 3 on the bounce, standard Brucie being an idiot

The OP is spot on the money

[hector]

Last three games

Win - 3-1 against Bury (low in league two)
Lost - 2-0 against Rochdale (3rd in league two)
Lost - 2-0 against Chesterfield (2nd in the league two)

It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that if we were to lose two games on the bounce that perhaps it should be against the top teams with better players , better budget more infrastructure and most importantly more money!

Yes I went to both defeats and yes it was bad both times but Downes gifted them yesterday's goal and he's our best player but no one comes on slagging him off and rightly so. It's not Knills fault he messed up just one of those things.

People say it's worse now under Knill than Ling, Ling had more money ! We could afford Howe! Knill couldn't afford to even offer him a deal.

The time is for realism, we aren't a huge club we are punching above our limits. Everyone is saying we're going down this is the first time this season we've been in bottom two. We've had serious injuries in defence and in most games we've been in with a shout.

We will struggle through the season and we all must be quietly confident of staying up quite comfortably. A win against accrington would mean our league form is WLW hardly relegation form!

Too many people panic straight away! This is not the way!

This is not panicking straight away. It has been clear for weeks that the team, under Knill, is not performing. It is just now even worse than it was. Your posting is all 'ifs and buts'. Check the reality of the situation. Only THREE wins ALL season. That IS relegation form in anyone's books. If you are going to break your argument down to three games, one of which we haven't even played, let alone won, you may as well break it down to one game and then, if we win, say it is promotion form.

This season, I have only seen two home games that hint at decent performances, Cheltenham and Portsmouth. The rest have been appalling and the last two just abysmal.

Persisting with Knill is just delaying the inevitable.

I'm dreading the Plymouth game. If you imagine the way we steam-rollered Plymouth two years ago and how bad they were. Now we are as bad as they were then.

You also use Rochdale as an example of as a 'big club'. Since when did Rochdale, with their smaller gates become a club with a bigger budget and better infrastructure? And how do you know this to be the case.

Simply, Torquay are poorly managed. Whether this be at board level for being too quick to plump for Knill, or simply Knill himself, or both.

[hector]

Chesterfield still have a VERY good squad and that team have now won 3 on the bounce, standard Brucie being an idiot

The OP is spot on the money

Indeed they do.

But Chesterfield didn't even have to move out of first gear yesterday. The tore us apart, It was like watching a training game.

[Neal]

Chesterfield didn't actually play that well, just that we were terrible. Under Ling at least we had a game plan, we haven't got that now. I can't see how it could be worse, well maybe 0 points I suppose. We are in a relegation spot that means we have to now get better results from now on in than teams above us, tall order that.

[stratfordgull]

I'm a glass half full kind of a supporter but my glass is only 1\24ths full and I can't see it being topped up much by AK.

Not even to 2\12ths (that's 22 of 24 for some) and 'safety'!

ML knew how to keep my glass topped up......

[tauntongull]

For me the fundamental issues at present are a lack of progression and what appears to be a lack of cohesion within the team. Whether this is due to the chemistry between the players, the lack of strategy and tactic from the manager or effort from the players or even a combination of all of these factors, can and will be debated at length.

From the first initial games this season many fans agreed that as there was a significant number of changes to the squad, Knill needed 10 or so games in order to decide on his preferred starting XI and to build his team. We passed this milestone some time ago and personally I am no nearer knowing the preferred XI than I was at the beginning of the season. All I know at present is that the team look devoid of any real idea of how to create attacking football. Without going into any depth of the last couple of performances it is clear that we are not learning and not improving and this is the most worrying trend from me. Some bizarre team selections (i.e Why did we sign Mozika and exactly what did he do yesterday - answers on a postcard!), some bizarre strategy/tactics (When you are 2-0 down at home in the FA Cup, why do you play with such a low sense of urgency and insist on going backwards with the ball ?). I think we have a group of individual players at present but not a 'Team' - probably not helped by the consistent changes in personnel and positions. To me this is a manager who is starting to panic and his actions and decisions are starting to reflect this.

For a number of games now I have watched the same style of play from a disjointed team who regularly make fundamental errors. A basic requirement of a footballer is to pass the ball successfully between two players. I have lost count of the number of times we have failed in this basic area each week. We are regularly caught napping on the ball either by passing casually or dwelling too long on the ball. Teams are coming to Plainmoor with a great working ethic, giving us little time on the ball and looking for the win and we seem to be like 'Rabbit's in the headlights', stunned by what we are facing. Of course I could go on, but as a manager it is your duty to watch and analyse the game both during and after the game and then implement in training ways to address these shortfalls and to ensure the players are aware and carry out what is required of them. This is my basic point; it is this lack of progression, in fact 'one step forward, two steps back' that I fear is going to cost us dearly.

I don't expect to win every game but I do expect us not to make the same mistakes time and time again. Nor do I expect us to simply lay down and let other teams tickle our tummy either. If you want to win, get the basics right, play as a team (for eachother) and when you are 1-0 down don't stick your head in the sand and pretend it hasn't happened. Instead show the fans that you would rather lose 5-0 and play showing unity with attacking and fearless football - ensuring that any visiting team have to earn everything!

Everyone keeps saying 'But we have got good players' - Knill now needs to ensure he uses his man management skills to understand each players motivation and to get the very best out of them whilst at the same time adopting a clear strategy and style of play that all the players understand what is required of them, I am not sure they have this clarity at present! - The fans certainly dont.

[Lloyder5]

I agree with much that is written in this post. I have been one of those who has argued for more time to be given. I haven't liked the anti-Knill posts for some of the unnecessarily emotive language and the haste in which they were demanding Knill's departure. I held that view because I could see talent in the squad and I felt that they weren't far off. I was at the match yesterday and previously at the York game and others before that. Each match I have seen we start promisingly playing quite progressive football. Against Cheltenham we were gifted goal and that set us on our way. In all other matches that has not happened and we haven't found an answer. I agree with Taunton, yesterday we lacked cohesion, this was particularly apparent in the way we didn't anticipate or compete for the second ball. Knill seems to have established the way he wants us to play when we have the ball, when we don't, we seem clueless, despite the best players being defenders. Chesterfield, for all their talent, when necessary, were quite happy to hoof the ball out of the ground. When the preferred style of play breaks down with the players we have, although some, Cruise, Craig and McCourt are technically pretty sound, we make mistakes and are immediate y under pressure and making errors. Taunton is right about man management being the short term answer. For a few seasons I was coached by Peter Darke, some on here will remember him. He was quite a fearsome character and his 'blood, muck and bullets' speech after a poor first half was not pleasant. The thing that he did really well, was speak individually to each player before the game, he would emphasize the positive elements of their game and then be clear about what he wanted during the particular match. First and foremost, win your personal battles; I was a centre-half so I had to win that battle with the centre-forward. That meant headers and tackles first, the physical aspect of the game and build from there. Then you start to play the football. Where we are now we have got to be more physical and build from that platform. Incidentally, I saw a bit more in Mozika, not fit enough, but his debut reminded me of Wes Saunder's debut, he got stick, but look where that ended.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I agree with much that is written in this post. I have been one of those who has argued for more time to be given. I haven't liked the anti-Knill posts for some of the unnecessarily emotive language and the haste in which they were demanding Knill's departure. I held that view because I could see talent in the squad and I felt that they weren't far off. I was at the match yesterday and previously at the York game and others before that. Each match I have seen we start promisingly playing quite progressive football. Against Cheltenham we were gifted goal and that set us on our way. In all other matches that has not happened and we haven't found an answer. I agree with Taunton, yesterday we lacked cohesion, this was particularly apparent in the way we didn't anticipate or compete for the second ball. Knill seems to have established the way he wants us to play when we have the ball, when we don't, we seem clueless, despite the best players being defenders. Chesterfield, for all their talent, when necessary, were quite happy to hoof the ball out of the ground. When the preferred style of play breaks down with the players we have, although some, Cruise, Craig and McCourt are technically pretty sound, we make mistakes and are immediate y under pressure and making errors. Taunton is right about man management being the short term answer. For a few seasons I was coached by Peter Darke, some on here will remember him. He was quite a fearsome character and his 'blood, muck and bullets' speech after a poor first half was not pleasant. The thing that he did really well, was speak individually to each player before the game, he would emphasize the positive elements of their game and then be clear about what he wanted during the particular match. First and foremost, win your personal battles; I was a centre-half so I had to win that battle with the centre-forward. That meant headers and tackles first, the physical aspect of the game and build from there. Then you start to play the football. Where we are now we have got to be more physical and build from that platform. Incidentally, I saw a bit more in Mozika, not fit enough, but his debut reminded me of Wes Saunder's debut, he got stick, but look where that ended.

I'm sorry Lloyder but I 100% disagree with this bit. From a personal perspective we are totally all over the place and lack any ideas whatsoever with or without the ball. I do agree though that a competent 'man-manager' would have this group of players a bit further up the table and playing with a bit more direction and not only does Knill not have football management ability he doesn't have the ability to man manage effectively either so what DOES he have that benefits us apart from bringing in the odd player like Chappell?

[Lloyder5]

I call your disagreement and raise you 1. I do think Knill knows how he wants the team to play, in the same way you knew how you wanted it to play when Ling was the manager. However, I also think Knill's method does not suit this group of players. When it breaks down we lack cohesion and make basic errors. Players need to be clear what is expected of them but they also need to be free to make decisions within the context of each match. They don't seem to be doing that.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I take your points Lloyder and we'll just have to agree to disagree in the main.

[Lloyder5]

Of course. And actually, as with most people on here, we're saying it's not working right now.