Quick one for the referees

[ferrarilover]

Picture the scene...

Poke knocks a kick upfield and Manse flicks on a header. Rene, from an onside position, outmuscles his defender (legally) and runs through on goal, but a heavy touch allows the defending 'keeper to make a hurried kick clear. The ball flies straight to Bodin who heads the ball back towards Rene, who is casually jogging back from his last attempt and is, therefore, stood 15 yards offside. Regardless, Bodin's header falls to a defender and that defender dwells on the ball. Rene, spotting this, runs to the defender and challenges him successfully. He runs through on goal unopposed and this time there is no mistake, a rapier-like shot from 20 yards flies into the top corner and Rene wheels away, arms aloft in celebration.

Should the goal stand, or should the lino flag him offside?

Matt.

[bixieupnorth]

once the defender has touched its a second period of play and therefore rene should not be penalised?? did this happen today matt?

[ferrarilover]

Something very similar, yes Bix. I've garnished it with a little gloss (the 20 yarder being the pièce de résistance), but the key elements are all there.

Not that I think the B man is wrong, but does anyone else have any relevant thoughts?

Matt.

[Glostergull]

With out doubt the goal stands. This is no different to the actual situation when Hilly caught an oppo keeper unawares by coming from behind him. Was he offside. no because the opposition keeper had touched the ball.
If you collect the ball immediatly from an opposition player you cannot be offside. There are many instances when this sort of thing has happened in one form or another. it may be disguised in another form of play be essentialy it's the same.

[cambgull]

Interestingly, I did see a goal very unfairly disallowed a few days ago. Cannot remember which game it was, but similar to the Hilly goal. The keeper in this case was holding the ball with one hand in open play. The striker ran around behind him, headed the ball out of his hand and being very careful to make absolutely no contact with the goalie at all, passed the ball into the goal. I thought the rule was that a goalkeeper must have 2 hands on the ball to be in control of it? I remember Andy Cole scoring a similar goal in the 9-0 drubbing of Ipswich all those years ago.

[tufc si]

Interestingly, I did see a goal very unfairly disallowed a few days ago. Cannot remember which game it was, but similar to the Hilly goal. The keeper in this case was holding the ball with one hand in open play. The striker ran around behind him, headed the ball out of his hand and being very careful to make absolutely no contact with the goalie at all, passed the ball into the goal. I thought the rule was that a goalkeeper must have 2 hands on the ball to be in control of it? I remember Andy Cole scoring a similar goal in the 9-0 drubbing of Ipswich all those years ago.

Yeah saw that too Camb! Looked like a perfectly good goal, the player didnt interfere with the keeper at all, just nodded the ball out of his hand and finished with a cracking shot!!

Must have bought in a rule recently (ish?) where you can't do that anymore!! I always thought though that the keeper has to have 2 hands on the ball to be in actual control of it

[YellowM25]

I thought if the bodin header is intended for Howe who is offside then the offside should be given. Only exception being that if referee deems there to be an advantage to the opposing team and lets play continue? Not a referee myself I hasten to add!

[Yellow4life]

The correct decision would be to carry on as its a new phase of play, I had one like this for Torquay reserves V Exeter last season and correctly let it go. It came to nothing however.

Source: im a referee!

[Gullscorer]

All depends on whether or not the officials were watching a different game..

However, if the referee hasn't blown his whistle then play goes on until the ball goes out of play or the whistle is blown, and so in this particular scenario the goal stands. The referee's decision is final.. :rules:

[AustrianAndyGull]

I don't understand the rules of football which makes it a lot easier for me on matchdays. It means i can slag the ref off regardless of whether he's right or not!

[ferrarilover]

Brilliant, thanks guys.

Matt.

[wodger of awabia]

Slightly off topic but the standard of the officials in todays Prem. games ( Everton v Liverpool, & Chelsea v Man U ) was absolutely dreadful. What's more it seems like every week there are terrible decisions being made.
I.M.O. the time has come where the very best foreign refs are registered, it is quite obvious that the current Prem. pool of officials are not good enough.

[Kernowgull]

The standard of refereeing is no worse than ever before. We just have fitter, faster players, who are willing to cheat, and tv cameras everywhere for people to analyse and debate decisions (thats the key point, decisions are debated with tv replays, how the hell can a ref get it right if people cant make a decision when they look at it 10 times from 10 angles?).

Players need to stop cheating before referees should be criticised!

[wodger of awabia]

The standard of refereeing is no worse than ever before. We just have fitter, faster players, who are willing to cheat, and tv cameras everywhere for people to analyse and debate decisions (thats the key point, decisions are debated with tv replays, how the hell can a ref get it right if people cant make a decision when they look at it 10 times from 10 angles?).

Players need to stop cheating before referees should be criticised!

Yes, so we need fitter & faster officials, there can be little excuse when a lino is in line, a few yards away & unobstructed, & still gets it wrong. Players only cheat because they know they will most likely get away with it as the officials are so cr#p. TV pundits are paid to debate & argue with each other, if they all agreed over video replays then there would be little point in using them.

[Rach]

just asked my fiance and he says:

yeah, the offside rule in instances like that is all to do with phases
Rene's obviously offside in the original situation, but if the defender's controlled the ball first then the play has moved on to the next phase
What the referee should have done though is blown for offside in the first place if he thought there was any chance that Howe may interfere with play. Seemingly though he just let play continue.

and it depends if that defender that 'dwelled' on the ball sufficiently touched and controlled it or not before Howe nicks the ball from him. If he has then the goal should stand as the play has moved on from the last phase.