Some perspective needed.

[yellowforever]

Someone offered 20 years of straight League 2 football now you'd take it?

Ridiculous, where's the ambition? Where's the desire to see your club promoted? When I'm old, I won't remember the seasons we finished mid table (not that many so far luckily), I'll remember days like that win at Southend while praying Huddersfield don't, or winning at Wembley with that magical cross from Carlise and header from Sills. I respect we have a budget and must keep to that, but will not concede to the dreary rhetoric of, 'oh it doesn't matter, we wouldn't stay up in League 1 anyway' or 'I'm happy with mid table mediocrity'. It's one of the key reasons we only get pathetic gates like this evening, this general apathy towards the club has been building up throughout the bay for many years and 'settling' with second best is helping harbour it.

Would I have traded the Promotion from League 2 to League 1 in 04 so we didn't have to go through the relegation the next season? Absolutely not, who would?

[SuperNickyWroe]

Super Nicky Wroe – where are people demanding promotion to League 1? Despite tonight's score line, I can rationally and calmly say I am worried we will be a non-league club for 2013/14. The wonderful new stand, the financial security, the improvements to the training ground will mean very little if that's the case.

cambgull – the important point is the one I've mentioned above – will we be a Football League club next season if we continue as we are? I'm not convinced we will, and the tone with which people voice their concern at results or dissatisfaction with performances is secondary to the club halting our slide to relegation.

you obviously didnt read any of my post then did you?

I said "it would be nice to get to league 1" - not that it was a pre-requiste.

[Glostergull]

Think it is wrong to suggest those most vocal in their dissappointment are the fans that did not start supporting the club untill after 2003, or those who do not remember Barnet, bryn etc, etc.

My lad BC-gull is 15, his first season was the League 1 campaign, he saw 2 relegations in his first 3 seasons as a gulls fan, he stuck with it and got his reward at Wembley a few seasons down the track, but thats the thing I saw my first Torquay game in 1980 and this household he is not the one moaning, it's me. And the group of young lads he now stands with despite the criticism they get from some sections are amongst the best supporters we have, traveling up and down country singing loud and proud supporting our team.

I remember the club through the 1980's-90's right to the present day, and yes we been in worse situations and some real dark places, however I personaly do not give a monkeys stuff about the past, the past has no relevance to what is happening today, and it is very much today, and what is happening in the now that I care about.

Yes the club needed to spend a lot of money on the infrustructure and it was every bit right to do so, our current manager now has a training ground fit for purpose ( the days of going down the beach are long gone) The manager has an assistant a goalkeeper coach even a full medical team to call opon, something that Leroy and managers before did not have .

As fans we can all be proud of what has risen from the ashes of the "train wreck" of a football club we once were, but and there is but here, what I, and many others have seen this season is a club that has taken a huge slide back towards those bad old days, it is my generation and older of fan that has been the most vocal in our dissappointment, and maybe thats because our expectations levels have risen so much. Not because of recent play-off campaigns, but because we can compare what the club is today against what it once was, were as the younger fans can not.

I have done something twice this season that I had never done in near on 30 years of going to football, thats leave the game before the final whistle, I did not even do during the season we slipped out of league, do not think I have ever been so bored out of my tiny mind watching football as I have been this season, and been consistantly fed up of watching my team in far to many games, not all, totaly over-run by the other team. But I will draw a line under that now, I have been calling for a loan stiker to be brought in for some time now, and now we have one, and praise goes to the board for making that happen.

Do I have things in perspective, do I see the bigger picture. Yes.What I see is all this fantastic work that has been done rebuilding our club, something that I, and every gulls fan is so proud of will be for nothing if we end up back in the conference, it will not be there for the next generations to enjoy.

I know our clubs funds are limited, allways have been, allways will be, we get that. But what I am calling on the club to do now is simple, refocus the attention on to the team and away from off-field projects "all the gear, no idea" will only see us back in the non-league, we now need to work on building a team, it will take time I know that, but that most now be the priority.

Do you see the bigger picture. And there's me thinking you read the Daily Star for the bigger picture.

Now to serious post.
Congratulations on your lad for the way he has taken to United. And may he never be a Les Miserable Like you Dave. lol.
We need more fans like Him. I suppose I was lucky in starting to support my team in the 1960's so remember those heady days playing big teams like Spurs in the FA cup and getting all that good press. The days of promotion in the last 60's and Stubbs'ys Goals. Even some of the days after relegation. Watching Les Lawrence and many others,
I also suffered with many the Terrible Webb days. The Roberts era and they were enough to make anyone give up the will to live.
But, and it is a big But. Torquay United Chose me. I didn't Choose Torquay United. I didn't have much of a choice even in the days when I went to bristol Rovers because I coudn't get to Plainmoor for reasons of age, Finance, Transport etc. But I bleed Yellow. If you cut my bone they have Torquay United written through them. No Trojan they are not horse bones. I don't eat out of a nose bag, (although I did go into Burger King and ask for a Horse burger last week. witha free bag of hay)
I will keep following United to my dying day. I have to need to follow any other team except when I am offered a free.Cheap ticket and cannot attent united matches. (I still need a fix now and again.)
I will support my team, The board. The staff etc to the hilt. This is the time to be counted. This is the time to stand with the management and board. any twit can follow when things go well.. it takes real guts to stick with it when things go down the pan or appear to be going down the pan.
We will prevail, as long as there is a United i have a team to follow. I will still follow them if we drop out of the league. I do hope we won't.. I do not think we will. But I won't stop if we do. I have seen posts where fans have stated they went home early. or couldn't be arsed to go. didn't feel they I could justify the money or just got fed up.
I ask you now. did you choose United. Or did United Choose you. If you Chose United. then I wouldn't be surprised to hear you are fed up of going. I wouldn't be surprised to hear you are not attending.
But if United Chose you. Then you should be bleeding Yellow. (I can see that will make a mess of the carpet) But you cannot dessert your team any more than you can cut off your legs and then run a marathon backwards witha blindfold on and hands tied up behind your head. while singing all of the spice girls singles.
You will feel the need to go and support your board because they supported you to make things go well when they went well. Now they need your support more then ever now that things are not going so well. They need your support to make the good times return, maybe not this season but next. or the next.
We are not Manure. Thank goodnesss. We are not Chelski. Or Arsenole. or Man SHity.
WE ARE UNITED. UNITED WE STAND. UNITED WE FALL. IF WE ARE NOT WE WILL FALL. BUT WE ARE AND WE WILL PREVAIL
COMETH THE HOUR.COMETH THE DAY. SUPPORT UNITED TODAY.

Soap box rant over. I will retire and let others carry on where I left off.

[Modgull]

My sentiments too Gloster - well said!

[SuperNickyWroe]

Someone offered 20 years of straight League 2 football now you'd take it?

Ridiculous, where's the ambition? Where's the desire to see your club promoted? When I'm old, I won't remember the seasons we finished mid table (not that many so far luckily), I'll remember days like that win at Southend while praying Huddersfield don't, or winning at Wembley with that magical cross from Carlise and header from Sills. I respect we have a budget and must keep to that, but will not concede to the dreary rhetoric of, 'oh it doesn't matter, we wouldn't stay up in League 1 anyway' or 'I'm happy with mid table mediocrity'. It's one of the key reasons we only get pathetic gates like this evening, this general apathy towards the club has been building up throughout the bay for many years and 'settling' with second best is helping harbour it.

Would I have traded the Promotion from League 2 to League 1 in 04 so we didn't have to go through the relegation the next season? Absolutely not, who would?

yes i would.

as i know what league football means to most if not (nearly) all posters on here.

would you honestly take the risk of returning to the BSP again?

I doubt whether we would get back in the league - as for league 1, in the present and I dare say for the next 5 years we would be unable to maintain that level of status and would be relegated again.

anyone that cant honestly see that with the financal status of our club is deluded. its not about being "ambitious" just realistic.

[cambgull]

I'm intrigued about opinion here...

Hypothetically, over a 10 year period, would you rather have 4 years in League 1, placing mid-table each time with a double relegation down to the BSP for 4 years, before promotion back to League 2 with a consolidation season, or:-

10 years in League 2 with equal degrees of promotion chasing, relegation battling and mid table seasons but with no actual change of League.

[jonnyfive]

Hmmm, none of us want to see United relegated Super, but I cannot agree.

Without the uncertainty of our team's fate each year, there would be little or no excitement in following them. It's the way a season develops that generates interest; the constant reassessment of one's hopes and fears.

[SuperNickyWroe]

yes i would.

as i know what league football means to most if not (nearly) all posters on here.

would you honestly take the risk of returning to the BSP again?

I doubt whether we would get back in the league - as for league 1, in the present and I dare say for the next 5 years we would be unable to maintain that level of status and would be relegated again.

anyone that cant honestly see that with the financal status of our club is deluded. its not about being "ambitious" just realistic.

anybody got anything to say about this now giving our current predicament????

[tommygull]

Been a while since I posted but had to say something here. I don't understand this attitude at all.

Why would anyone bother turning up if you couldn't go up or down?

The risk of going down is the only thing making me go to games at the moment to support the guys when they need it. A simple shout of "come on Kev" when he comes over to take a throw can, IMO, really help the psyche when away from home.

To go down would be a disaster for the club of course but as a fan I really enjoyed travelling to some of those grounds and playing different teams and pushing for promotion (not sure it would be so easy this time!) what I'm saying is, without promotion and relegation there's no ruddy point in turning up.

[jonnyfive]

anybody got anything to say about this now giving our current predicament????[/quote]

Er yes, I'll say something if you want. Your post is foolish, and shows a complete lack of nous about what it is to be a football fan. Is that okay, or shall I say a bit more?

[Glostergull]

Would I trade 20 years od mid table mediocraty.
Not a chance
One of the main reasons anyone follows a football team is to see your team get promotion. To celebrate the thing with others and to vent your spleen at the ref instead of the wife. Oh ok the wife as well.
The thing about following our team is the danger of falling. yes it's dangerous but worth it if we end up at the other end of the table. Yes we have had a few good seasons. I was expecting it to fall eventually and I really don't want to see that happen. I pray we don't fall in the Non league scene again but it's a risk we have to take if we want to have the other scenario. It's a bit of a gamble really. But without it what is the point of following a team.
I know several members on hear who follow our team with a passion. I myself had tears in my eyes when we were promoted. all the times I have witnessed it. .
Equally I have had tears when we fell from grace, That is the risk of following us. If you can't take it get out of the kitchen
Would you rather we were like manure. What on earth do thy ever get out of life. Always winning hardly ever losing. What can they gain from it. In the Old days it was more even and you never really knew who might win the league, but now it's near enough easy ton predict. Too easy in fact. where is the tension. where is the anticipation. How can you really learn to apreciate a win or even winning a trophy if you have not experienced the sad repeat of getting part way and losing again,. Going away to some Godforsaken hole Like Acrington and suffering the wind and rain.(keep off the curries guys) and getting stuffed 4-0 Going 10 or 12 games without a win. Getting a draw then another 5 game losing streak. it's all you go through following Torquay United. Then one day it all comes good. Leroy comes in and knits together a team of bedraggled leftovers from the basement and one fine day in Southen we go to the wire and find we have won promotion. No I wouldn't change it for the world. If anything I would say we have found an education that Those at the top of the Premiershite have sadly missed out. How to apreciate what you have around you. Instead they take things forgranted. '
We may be in the bargain basement of football. But we are rich indeed in heritage. rich indeed in knowledge and rich in appreciation,
I wouldn't swap it for the world

[SuperNickyWroe]

well im glad i whipped up a bit of enthusiasum!

i do hope some of the posters arnt doubting my affection for TUFC - I have been through the good and bad since 1973, and just stating a opinion.
thanks for saying im "foolish" by the way johnny. thats your opinion. hope you never post anything controversial then..........

[Dave_Pougher]

We have been "over achieing" for two seasons, we've been doing "wait and see" for about the same time. Can't help feel that theres a common denominator there. How about we try "lets see what we can achieve" and "lets try something new and different" ? These attitudes come from far higher than the manager or coaching staff. We need to at least have some vision and ambition before anythings going to improve on the pitch and that has to come from the top.

You have to ask yourself had some of the current incumbents been in charge during our conference years, would we have ever left that league?

Not an easy thing to say, it hurts in fact, but until we have some leadership of the correct type then it matters little who we have as manager.

[jonnyfive]

well im glad i whipped up a bit of enthusiasum!

i do hope some of the posters arnt doubting my affection for TUFC - I have been through the good and bad since 1973, and just stating a opinion.
thanks for saying im "foolish" by the way johnny. thats your opinion. hope you never post anything controversial then..........

No offence SuperNickyWroe. It just seemed as if you were crowing as if your point had somehow been proven, when it certainly hasn't.

It was only the post that was foolish, not necessarily the author o:)

[hector]

As a football fan you have to be able to dream. You have to hope that your club is doing everything it can to progress and get better. Without that hope and dream, then there is nothing to get excited about, other than the matchday rituals of meeting up with mates and having a couple of pints because if you know that at the end of the season you are never going to be better than 15th, then what is the point. You may as well be a neutral somewhere if there is little riding on a season or match.

Sometimes decisions and choices will be made and the club will suffer a relegation or gain a promotion on the back of them but to be mid-table forever? No thank you.

What I love about our pyramid system is how fluid it is. You could not get e.g. Fleetwood Town in USA, climbing the leagues, even if it was on the back of a sugar daddy.

I always knew when I was gloating to Exeter fans about there relegation to the Conference in 2003, that one day we would join them and that one day they would be bettter than us and then the positions would change again. We all know that, even if Plymouth succumbed to relegation this season, that one day, even if it is in 3 or 4 years, they would come back up and be better than us.

It all rests on decisions and how strategic the custodians of the club are. I am happy with our owners. We are lucky that with Simon Baker et al, we have a group of people, who you can count on, will make decisions in the interest of TUFC. We have experience of an owner who doesn't do this and so even if the board get the decision wrong, which they will do and probably have done on occasion, I believe that it will have been made with the best intentions.

When Mike Bateson appointed people like Compton, Saunders, Cornforth etc to the managers post, nobody could seriously argue that those decisions were done with the clubs ambition/well-being at heart.

Whereas this board recruited Colin Lee, who in turn recruited Buckle and they have recruited Martin Ling. I believe that they will make the best appointment and not some yes man or some appointment driven by sentimentality such as a Hargreaves or Rosenior appointment. My only wish is that they would hurry up about it as the games are starting to slip away.

Another point is that people are assuming 48 points will be enough to stay up. I fear it won't be as I do not think there are teams who are as outright bad as we would normally expect. This division is much of a muchness with most teams able to beat each other and it is those small margins of error that will cost teams points, rather than being utterly crap. The home game with Aldershot is a case in point plus in our favour plus that run of losing/drawing games in the last 5 minutes when we still probably thought 'that really' we are quite good.

We are - perhaps- the on or one of a few who are looking genuinely bad at that moment at a time when our manager is off ill so you cannot even sack him to get a new permanent manager in (that is not meant to read as harshly as it may sound). So we are left looking at managers willing to take a job that may only last a matter of weeks which likely reduces the calibre of candidates.

I think we are in a very difficult position and a defeat tonight would be quite significant. However, a win will be worse if it means the board think they can leave it to Taylor to run things for the rest of the season.