Some perspective needed.

[cambgull]

Reading the forum today, you would think we were fighting for our lives both on the pitch and financially off it too. Our manager seemingly has some life threatening virus and is also destined to join a team with less money than our own with a future which is bleak, at best.

Throughout my time of watching Torquay, I have seen some utter drivel and we've spent much more time in the bottom half of the table than we have at the top end.

That said, aside from the well documented 'Roberts Era', we have been a well run club which performs within its means and at one point in the late 90s, we were one of only 4 teams in the entire football league which ran at a profit. Usually this meant we didn't spend much on the playing budget.

We currently have a board who intend to continue this tradition whilst being able to improve the stadium, the training ground and keep the team competitive on the pitch. Something that fans of other teams at our level could only dream of.

As for the teams, for the most part, we've had awful teams playing rubbish football and dropping points left, right and centre with late goals. Torquay games were like no other team's games. We had 70 minutes to score as many goals as we could because the inevitable fight back in the last 20 minutes would see us concede at least once. The football was rubbish, aside from the odd gem, the players were rubbish and the morale of the fans was rubbish too.

Then came 2002/2003, when the foundations of the promotion season were laid. Sensible signings, many being players who had gained promotion with Argyle just a couple seasons earlier were brought in and the acquisition of Leroy Rosenior saw us gain automatic promotion for the first time in many, many years. A genuinely positive feeling was brought to the club for the first time in quite a few seasons and this is perhaps where the raise in expectations began.

Many new fans were gained during this season and quite a few were probably lost in the following 3 seasons. Even Chelsea had less managers than we did!

Then came the Conference years up to now. They have probably been the most successful run of years we have had as a football club, certainly since the fourth tier of English football became countrywide.

As much as we all have our opinions on Mr Buckle, nobody can honestly say that they didn't enjoy the cup runs, the attacking brand of football and the belief that we could beat all comers.

Now we move onto the reign of Martin Ling. The football isn't exactly sexy football, but it saw us go on one of the best winning runs I have ever seen us have and we all united behind our team to try for a promotion which absolutely none of us expected at the start of the season. Now, perhaps we see something a bit more realistic of Torquay United, a season with some poor performances and a worry of relegation. The difference being, if we were in this position 15 years ago, we'd probably be quite pleased. We were often in Argyle's current position.

I often see a running trend on this forum, although of course, there are exceptions. Those who have followed our little club for many years tend to be more philosophical about things, they've seen it before and will see it in the future. Those who have begun following TUFC since 2003 are disappointed and vocal of it.

Put simply, we are not a historically successful team. We have spent most of our times propping up the football league and struggling against relegation with sporadic blips of good seasons. That's not to say we shouldn't be ambitious, just more realistic about our league position, especially when a couple wins could see us challenging for the play offs.

Our current position is not great and we aren't playing good looking football, but it has been far worse just 15 years ago. If you weren't a Torquay fan in the mid Nineties, ask an elder about why we should adore Stevenage's ground...

[oxgull]

Good posting mate Indeed we were a perennial under performing club residing in the bottom 4 every season with an average gate of around 1,500. No atmosphere, no morale, a crumbling ground and on a road to nowhere. Now we have a stadium! yes, a STADIUM, improving facilities, financial stability (to a point) but playing wise, not great this season. I'll take it as we still have 37 points in February and still plenty of games to get to 50 plus points. The support on the terraces is still good, especially away from home, despite the moans we all want the best for our club and, I believe, we have a bright future so get behind the boys and sing yer hearts out because, after all, supporting Torquay United is non negotiable!!!!

[Scott Brehaut]

Quality post Cambgull - pleased to see that there are others around that can see the bigger picture.

This season hasn't been pretty, I'll grant you that, and I'm fortunate in that I don't spend lots of money travelling to watch every game, but as long as we finish 1 place outside the relegation zone, I will take that.

In Ling we have a manager that can see the bigger picture too - we have a team that is going to be pulled apart again at the end of the season, but also a youth team that is going places and, in my opinion, one that will start to produce first team players in the not too distant future.
The Board are forward thinking - building up great foundations that will serve us well for the foreseeable future.

The futures bright - the futures yellow.

[cambgull]

Funny you mention the youth team. I walked past a few of them who were sat in the Bench and I noticed a big difference to previous set ups. These ones aren't all short, they look taller, stronger and professional in their demeanor.

I then saw one mucking about, thought to myself, 'he won't be getting a contract' and then saw DS on the front of his jacket, he's already flipping got one!

[Dutchgull]

Love this line cambgull !!!
Our current position is not great and we aren't playing good looking football, but it has been far worse just 15 years ago. If you weren't a Torquay fan in the mid Nineties, ask an elder about why we should adore Stevenage's ground...

I wonder how many don't know about that or Dobbo and Bryn or Barnet !!!

[NA Gull]

A lot of the reasons I fail to get worked up are listed above. Whether we like it or not, we are a small club in a league with big teams - Rovers, Plymouth, Port Vale, Gillingham who can spend much more money than us and it shows. Since the consortium took over we have built from the bottom up. I believe if we can see out this season and maybe next, get the infrastructure right then the legacy will be around for generations. Previous regimes have not invested anywhere near the amount of money we have seen pumped into the club over the last few years.
When you think back to some of the dreadful players and managers we have had since I started supporting the club (1991) then you realise that no, this is not the best of seasons, but by heck it is nowhere near the worst.
Part of the fun of supporting Torquay (or any of the clubs who spend large periods in League 2 is the gallows humour - "you draw some, you lose some" - and its very true. If you want success then support Man Yoo.

[Southampton Gull]

Not Leeds though

[Dave]

Think it is wrong to suggest those most vocal in their dissappointment are the fans that did not start supporting the club untill after 2003, or those who do not remember Barnet, bryn etc, etc.

My lad BC-gull is 15, his first season was the League 1 campaign, he saw 2 relegations in his first 3 seasons as a gulls fan, he stuck with it and got his reward at Wembley a few seasons down the track, but thats the thing I saw my first Torquay game in 1980 and this household he is not the one moaning, it's me. And the group of young lads he now stands with despite the criticism they get from some sections are amongst the best supporters we have, traveling up and down country singing loud and proud supporting our team.

I remember the club through the 1980's-90's right to the present day, and yes we been in worse situations and some real dark places, however I personaly do not give a monkeys stuff about the past, the past has no relevance to what is happening today, and it is very much today, and what is happening in the now that I care about.

Yes the club needed to spend a lot of money on the infrustructure and it was every bit right to do so, our current manager now has a training ground fit for purpose ( the days of going down the beach are long gone) The manager has an assistant a goalkeeper coach even a full medical team to call opon, something that Leroy and managers before did not have .

As fans we can all be proud of what has risen from the ashes of the "train wreck" of a football club we once were, but and there is but here, what I, and many others have seen this season is a club that has taken a huge slide back towards those bad old days, it is my generation and older of fan that has been the most vocal in our dissappointment, and maybe thats because our expectations levels have risen so much. Not because of recent play-off campaigns, but because we can compare what the club is today against what it once was, were as the younger fans can not.

I have done something twice this season that I had never done in near on 30 years of going to football, thats leave the game before the final whistle, I did not even do during the season we slipped out of league, do not think I have ever been so bored out of my tiny mind watching football as I have been this season, and been consistantly fed up of watching my team in far to many games, not all, totaly over-run by the other team. But I will draw a line under that now, I have been calling for a loan stiker to be brought in for some time now, and now we have one, and praise goes to the board for making that happen.

Do I have things in perspective, do I see the bigger picture. Yes.What I see is all this fantastic work that has been done rebuilding our club, something that I, and every gulls fan is so proud of will be for nothing if we end up back in the conference, it will not be there for the next generations to enjoy.

I know our clubs funds are limited, allways have been, allways will be, we get that. But what I am calling on the club to do now is simple, refocus the attention on to the team and away from off-field projects "all the gear, no idea" will only see us back in the non-league, we now need to work on building a team, it will take time I know that, but that most now be the priority.

[Kernowgull]

I agree and disagree equally. I dont know the ins and outs of the finances, but its quite possible that the board have said something along the lines of "Martin, heres your budget for the next 2/3 seasons. Your aim is purely to keep us up for the next few seasons. Once everything is in place, we'll build a sustainable league one club". If thats the case, then fair play and dont invest in players anymore than necessary to stay up. Any lost crowd revenue could be saved in wages and the fans will come back when we start winning in a few years.

However, my enthusiasm for going to games Is at an all time low. Ive been a fan since 91 and used to get so excited. This season, particularly after going to Plymouth Away, Wimbledon home, and Cheltenham away games, I dont want to spend anymore money on going to football this year. On Saturday, I didnt listen to Gullsplayer, I went on a boat trip with my girlfriends family. Tomorrow I'll probably watch Celtic. 20 quid to watch football as bad as my 5 a side team is not acceptable and Im usuallt very positive. The club need to be careful, or they'll lose even more fans, and the frustrating thing is that there is an entertaining team in there and it isnt being picked.

The club have made a sensible signing in Benyon, hopefully this will make for a more entertaining last third of the season and this period of tedium will be condemned to history.

[oxgull]

I understand what Dave is saying as we talked about it on Saturday and, I must say now, for the first time I felt the urge to leave before the final whistle but my inbuilt unquestioning loyalty kicked in. One we go a goal down I just think "well, that's it then, playing for one point" and thats not like me. However I have to trust in what is going on behind the scenes and can only hope the club focus a bit more on the playing staff as, Dave says, we could well end up in a last day shoot out to stay in the league and if that goes horribly wrong I don't think I could handle watching football any more because all the great work will have been wasted forever.
They talk about middle aged men suffering depression in ever increasing numbers and they will see another one as well if we die as a league club. BTW I have suffered with it before and it ain't a nice thing to have. On a positive Benners is back and lets see how we get on tonight against Rovrum!!! COYYS

[Chris B]

Whilst I agree with the idea behind the thread's title, I'm glad there are posts challenging Cambgull, particularly the suggestion those dissatisfied are largely newcomers to TUFC.

Your final sentence about Stevenage's ground is at the essence of why we're right to feel concerned. For spells in the 80s and 90s it seemed no matter how appalling we were, the threat of relegation from the 4th tier was much less. Be it through re-election, Bryn's intervention or Stevenage's inadequate ground, there was always a get out of jail card. Barnet added to the sense we 'couldn't' go down, even if the circumstances of that final day shoot-out made it feel like a serious wake up call.

The addition of the second automatic relegation spot and the increasing difficulty for traditional Football League clubs to get back up add to the sense it's all too easy to slip down and never come back. We were fortunate we managed to at the second attempt, but I'm under no illusions we'd repeat the feat.

Of course it's a source of great pride to see how we've recovered since the dark Roberts days, and Bristow's Bench is a magnificent symbol of how the club has been rebuilt and continues to go from strength to strength off the field. But let's not allow that to cloud our judgment about the performance of the team, which, after all, is the very purpose of TUFC.

This season has been grim in terms of entertainment, and 13 points in 14 games since the end of October is cause for serious concern. And yet there's been an air of complacency coming from the board, coaching staff and players (and some on here), with continued talk of a play-off push. Allied to investment in the infrastructure (big screen, training ground, talk of the plastic pitch), but seemingly no funds for additions to the squad (until the timely and laudable signing of Elliot Benyon), it's only understandable there has been frustration, growing apathy, and a reluctance to spend money on higher ticket and fuel prices at a time when many are less comfortable financially.

[SuperNickyWroe]

for gods sake, how many times does it have to be said.

we are Torquay United FC, small squad, small budget, small crowds - but fans who love our team.

we are League 2 and to get into League 1 would be great - but if someone (as i have said many times before) offered my 20yrs of League 2 football I would take it every time.

and thats not being negative, just how I feel about this and it makes me and would make me proud if that happened - as we all know how much stick we all get for supporting TUFC.

[cambgull]

Chris, if you re-read my post you would see that I stated they were trends I had noticed, and that there were exceptions to this. The trend is based on what members have written and the tone in which I pick up whilst reading the posts. My point was not who was disappointed, we're all disappointed, its just that the ones who I know to be older fans are generally more passive and the ones who I know to be more vocal about their annoyance are generally newer fans.

[Chris B]

Super Nicky Wroe – where are people demanding promotion to League 1? Despite tonight's score line, I can rationally and calmly say I am worried we will be a non-league club for 2013/14. The wonderful new stand, the financial security, the improvements to the training ground will mean very little if that's the case.

cambgull – the important point is the one I've mentioned above – will we be a Football League club next season if we continue as we are? I'm not convinced we will, and the tone with which people voice their concern at results or dissatisfaction with performances is secondary to the club halting our slide to relegation.

[oxgull]

I freakin give up