Torquay United v Dagenham & Redbridge - 1/12/12

[Kernowgull]

Have just seen the goals on player! I was under the impression Thompsons effort was goalbound, or going narrowly wide at worst. Mansell was claiming it as Thompsons goal on the commentary. In no way a criticism of the lad, but it was certainly not his goal!!

[jonnyfive]

The lady who gave the 50 thousand, did specify that it was for the club to try and sign Bodin. It may sound ridiculous, a fan essentially deciding whether a team can buy a player or not, but that's the wonderful nature of lower league football (just look at Exeter).

Beat me to it, Luke. We can only consider Bodin's cost to be 20k. The argument as to whether his value is 70k is a separate one. In my view his potential alone is worth the 20k spend; there will certainly be more to come from the youngster.

[AustrianAndyGull]

The thing with Thompson is that he is that quick and direct that if he continues to get himself into those positions he doesn't particularly need to be accurate with his shooting ( although it helps! ). Any balls fizzed across the box like the one v Daggers could end up anywhere, in the back of the net, spinning off a defender into the path of one of our strikers or anywhere leading to a goalscoring opportunity. That is why we need to start using him to full effect.

We can argue until the cows the come home about how much Bodin cost or is worth but ultimately if any of you out there are perfectly happy with his form this season then great. Those of you that aren't maybe see my point of view. I don't ask the earth, just for a player like Bodin to begin having a huge influence in games again. If he can't then i'm right and he was a bad signing. As Bengull said about Jarvis that we can't carry passengers, the same applies to Bodin as one good game every three or four isn't quite enough in my opinion. Notice we don't have the same criticisms of players like Saah, Downes, Pokey, Howe? It is because we know what to expect from them and they rarely fail to live up to those expectations. I don't know what to expect from Billy anymore and maybe that is because he isn't good enough for us. Maybe we are expecting too much of Billy and if that is the case and Billy continues to play very averagely, it is maybe as he is an average player. Nothing wrong with that but just as i am trying to bring Billy down a peg or two so i can begin to have a reasonable viewpoint on his actual ability and get to accept it, many of you are doing the opposite and maybe making out he is going to improve vastly and trying to big him up. Many of you still hold out hope that he will suddenly see the light and blitz the opposition week in week out and that's ok, don't knock me though for having the opinion that this sudden improvement ain't never gonna happen and we have signed an enormously overrated player.

Obviously if he were to turn his form around to the extent that he were in the league 2 team of the week on a regular basis ( which he is million miles from doing so ) then i would have to admit to being wrong and praise Billy for rediscovering the undoubted talent that he has got. I know what i think and i'm not going to apologise for it. I must re-iterate i never boo, jeer or shout abuse and those of you who were stood near / with me at York will know i shouted many words of encouragement to Billy during the game even though i wasn't too blown away with his performance.

[yellowforever]

Bodin needs a rest. He doesn't look fresh and hopefully benching him for a bit gives him a kick up the backside. Bring him on with 25 to go, no harm in doing that. Whatever you say though, he IS inexperienced and young, for christ's sake last season was his first in professional football and he's 20.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Thanks for your post yellowforever but i just can't accept excuses like those for not performing. If he can't find the answers to the problems then he should really be looking at alternative lines of employment. Youngsters make mistakes, make rash decisions and can be frivolous, they don't however become crap at football when previously they had been good. If they do then i'm not in a position to say i'm happy with that. All people want to do nowadays is make excuses and avoid personal responsibility. He gets paid to do a job so he he should be doing it. If he can't then he should be released so he can find a career he can get to grips with, sold for less money to a lesser club or find a way to play his position properly to a reasonable and effective standard on a weekly basis. Just like Saah, Downes, Poke, Howe, et al. I'd much prefer the latter but i just can't see it happening now.

I agree with you he needs a rest and clearly he is aware of the stick he has had from some sections of fans ( not me i may add, not at games anyway ) but Martin won't drop him because of the transfer fee he paid. Dropping Billy will make it look like Ling has dropped a clanger in signing him and i reckon deep down Ling is hoping, like many of you are that he will come good sooner rather than later if he keeps being played. We also don't have many options with Mackers and Morris being out too so we are limited.

I'm sorry if i'm being harsh but it's just the way i see it, i try and live in the real world and if Billy wants to be a man ( which he is he's 20 ) then he has to find the answers himself if he is to continue receiving a wage.

[bengull]

Not going to be drawn into another Bodin debate because it feels like they arise every couple of matches, but I did think he was effective in both the York match and again yesterday, his ball to release Rene for the first goal was a touch of class.

There is clearly a very skilled player in there being stifled by a number of factors, and I think his biggest draw-back is he is just trying too hard to make it work, by doing this he is neglecting to do the simple things right. No-one can accuse him of going missing in games, he keeps showing for the ball, and taking a man on, it just isn't happening for him at the moment. As Andy says, we just have to have faith that he gets a bit of luck, a shot garners a fortuitous deflection or whatever, to set him on his way. Certainly think the change in formation is benefitting both he and Stevens though.

For me, it is only a matter of time before he comes good. Exeter and Plymouth in quick succession is the perfect situation for any player we currently have reservations about to elevate themselves to 'god-like status' and I really think those two games could be the making of Billy, and our season.

[jonnyfive]

We also don't have many options with Mackers and Morris being out too so we are limited.

And yet you would like TUFC to tear up Billy's contract or sell him at a loss?

Come on Andy, keep things in perspective. I love the way you wear your heart on your sleeve, and your vivid and honest posts are a keystone of this forum, but give the lad a (sustained) chance, would ya?

I'd understand your view if he were about 6 years further down the track, and was a self-styled striker with 28 goals in 210 league appearances, but we are hardly likely to field anyone like that!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Thanks for the kind words jonny and yes i would rather see us lose £70k or sell him at a loss than pay somebody week in week out for underachieving. I don't find such a scenario acceptable in ANY line of work and i make no exception for footballers. I know that may seem absurd but it is the way i view things. Billy has had a sustained chance to prove he is better than he is and that sustained chance has come in the form of 20 odd games already this season, that's ample chance in my book to start showing us some quality and results. It hasn't happened yet and so he needs to dig deep, grit his teeth and sort out the problem. Like i say, if he can't then he shouldn't be dragging a wage every week. I accept my viewpoint is eccentric to some of you but to me it is common sense and the right thing. I'm all for giving the lad a chance but he's had 20 of them and i've seen 6 or 7 and witnessed one half decent game at York where he played to the minimum level expected. How can that be right? It's your money going towards his wages and whilst i have to get up at the crack of dawn, drive to Leicester for 8am, get bit and attacked by dogs then trawl the M1 back home in the dark to get home after 6 for barely £250 a week, he can say he's young, off form but it will come good but keep on taking the cash. Your cash. If Billy knows he has been off form then he needs to man up, address it and sort it quickly otherwise move on and go and sell double glazing or something.

[LukeGull]

The thing that I love about Thompson is the way that the defenders are scared of his pace, which makes them stand off of him that little bit more enabling him to have a direct run down the line, usually resulting in a throw-in, a corner or a cross. It has been a fair while now since we had somebody like that at the club, Zebroski being the most recent one I can think of. The only thing with Thompson is that I don't think he can keep it up the might and gusto with which he runs for a whole game. As Ling has said, all the players in the team need to do their defensive shift, and I don't think Ling is confident in Niall's defensive ability. Although defending isn't Billy's strongest point, it has to be said he has improved.
I think Thompson is a brilliant impact sub, bring him on when the opponents are tiring and you know they are going to struggle to deal with him. I'm happy for Billy to keep playing and like it has been said I do hope that Billy's form will improve, because at the moment he is average. However I think Thompson's ability as an impact sub means that if things aren't going Billy's or Danny's way then he can be brought on.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Wise words Luke, i too am struggling to see how best to play Niall. Like you say it is doubtful he could keep up his electric tempo for 90 minutes so do we start him and be offensive from the off or do we save him for the last third of the game and bring him on? I personally would start him and let him at the opposition for the first hour, of course this means that Ling has to put out a pretty attacking line up which isn't alway the case. I always feel that when we bring him on for the last 20 or so, our other players are so knackered that they don't make the runs to get onto Nialls crosses as he is too quick!

[bengull]

I know you don't HATE Billy Andy, and I know you are desperate for him to prove you wrong, and i know you will offer a full retraction of your opinions if he does prove you wrong but I do think this is going a bit far now. I agree we have not had anywhere near the 70K value we paid for him, and in most games this season he has been frustrating as hell to watch but in football form is temporary. We have to have faith in our players, and in our manager for choosing them, otherwise we may as well give up and go and watch egg-chasing. I don't think for one second that Martin Ling would continue to start a player who is having a detrimental effect on the team, and to my mind Billy is not that. I don't think anyone is expecting too much of him, and i don't think he has produced what we expected, but as long as he keeps trying, keeps working hard and his continued inclusion doesn't see us plummet from playoffs to bottom 5 then I will continue to support him and refuse to write him off.

Arguably the same scenario existed for David Graham, woefully ineffective for the Roy Macfarland season (as well as a disruption off the pitch if reports were to be believed) but came good in the end. Danny Stevens, Lee Canoville. Kevin Nicholson, Tim Sills etc, plenty of players have had sticky spells they have all had to come through and came out the other side with credit to their name.

Don't like the comparison against our daily lives as employees and football players either. It's easy to complain and criticise because they are earning a lot more money than us for comparably less work. However I do think we would perform differently in our day to day work if we had 2000 people watching us do so and then logging onto social networks to tell us we are useless even if we believe we are doing the best we can. I am not saying we have applaud his every footstep, but at the same time it is important to acknowledge the things he is doing well, rest assured if he scored a few in a row the same fans who had been lambasting him would be saying they always knew he had it in him.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I do believe that is a well contrived and reasoned post Ben and it has probably made me realise that perhaps i am comparing football and life too literally. It is often something done on a regular basis by neanderthal unicellular supporters who fail to see the bigger picture and although i confess to being a dour Yorkshireman with simplistic views on life, i certainly hope i am not seen as a brainless oik by other members. Your post has made me see a chink of light that maybe i am being harsh on Billy and that, as he is a TUFC player i should be giving him 100% backing. Which i have done at games but not on here. Well done Ben!

[Dave]

Think its clear that long term injuries to Morris and Macklin has meant Lingy has been forced into using Nail Tompson a lot more so far this season than he ever intended to, he is no doubt good enough so old enough however it must be remembered Nial is a very young raw player who needs to be handled correctly.

This whole Billy Bodin argument/disscussion call it what you like is getting a tiresome, no one was questioning a single penny of the money spent on him at the start of the season, even more so after his goal and performance against Rochdale.

We have seen the evidence last season and at the start of this just how good that lad can be and potentialy is going to be, its been said above we must remember he is only a very young player with just one season behind him at senoir level.

Billy Bodin gave a much improved performance yesterday (allthough still short of where he should be) Maybe a sign he is begining to play through the sticky patch he has hit recently, indeed a break maybe is what he needs, it seems to have worked for Joe Oastler. there remains no doubt in my mind however Billy Bodin is the player with the must potential at our club, give him time you will see.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Think its clear that long term injuries to Morris and Macklin has meant Lingy has been forced into using Nail Tompson a lot more so far this season than he ever intended to, he is no doubt good enough so old enough however it must be remembered Nial is a very young raw player who needs to be handled correctly.

This whole Billy Bodin argument/disscussion call it what you like is getting a tiresome, no one was questioning a single penny of the money spent on him at the start of the season, even more so after his goal and performance against Rochdale.

We have seen the evidence last season and at the start of this just how good that lad can be and potentialy is going to be, its been said above we must remember he is only a very young player with just one season behind him at senoir level.

Billy Bodin gave a much improved performance yesterday (allthough still short of where he should be) Maybe a sign he is begining to play through the sticky patch he has hit recently, indeed a break maybe is what he needs, it seems to have worked for Joe Oastler. there remains no doubt in my mind however Billy Bodin is the player with the must potential at our club, give him time you will see.

Fair enough Dave. I did in fact think we had made an error in signing him to be honest, i remember when he came down to Plainmoor with Crewe and he was bloody awful and was subbed. If Crewe thought he was any good they surely would have signed him up, especially given the relatively low transfer fee plus the fact that they are renowned for spotting good young players and developing them. Obviously he is a Torquay player now and we must get behind him but by the same token he must take some personal responsibility Dave do you agree? I don't wish to go over old ground. This series of posts only started because someone disagreed with my off the cuff remark about Billy not being worth £70k and i replied. I didn't want another Billy debate either, i'm just replying to posts about Billy thats all.

[Dave]

Andy I made the mistake in my early days as a site member of attacking posters for bringing a negative opinion about the club or player to the site, I soon realised it only stiffles debate and after all that is what these forums are about, so never back away from posting your genuine and honest opinions about the club, team or any player even if it goes against the popular opinion of the sites members.

Yes I do agree, Billy Bodin or in fact any player of any club at all levels should take a certain amount of personal responsibilty of there performance levels as should the manager, its a two way thing, if a player is falling short the manager player and coaching staff should be able to work it through verbaly and on the training ground to fix any problem.

Us fans feel there is a problem with Billy Bodins performance levels , however it may well be the case that both Lingy and Bodin don't agree that said if they do feel all is not well I am sure they are working on putting it right.