Racism in football

[Glostergull]

I have just been watching a programme on BBC which was hosted by Clark Carlisle. It opens up the issue again of racism in football.
Why have I brought this up again in this forum.
Well the simple anwer is this.
There seems to be an untapped source of players in the UK who by and large seem ingnored. I know that there are not many Asians in the game in the first place and I only remember watcing one who played for Bristol Rovers, Anwar Udin. Who I really thought was good.
If we found a source of reallty good players in an Asian Team
1. Would we as fans accept them without predudice.
2, Would we move to quash any antisemetic or anti Asian chants from our Younger members of the pop side toward these players or any of the opposition (Knowing that we have just had a section of the pop side make silly remarks toward a player, I am not suggesting the remarks were in any way racist but targetting a specific player could be a catalis).
3. Would we accept this player without qualms or predudice as one of our own.
4. Would we indeed enourage our board and mangement to look at this specific area as a club if there is a chance we will be able to find a rich source to progress our ambitions.
5. Do you think the board and management would support us in this and help stamp out racism in our area by employing Asian players if they were good enough.
It seems sad that even in these so called enlightened times with the recent cases of high profile players in court and the recent case brought against a league two club for unfair dismissal because of racism, we still as a country practice a silent predudice against a minority to the loss of freedom effectivly for that minority.
I for one would love to see any player we can get whoever they are and whatever race they were proud to put on the yellow shirt and help our club up the league. I would support them to the hilt and any person would be welcome in my house whatever colour or race they were. Most people who know me knows this to be true. Honest hard working people I have no problem with. Neither do I condemn or pick out any specific race or colour as lazy or in any way guilty of most of our countries problems as some do. There are just as many white Bristish people who are guilty of dragging our country donw in the sewers as any other.
but I do get angry if I see anyone overlooked because of thier race or colour to the detriment of the organisation who are looking for new blood. we should be looking at this source of rich talent and if no one else wants them then we will gain the advantage and take them ourselves. we can only gain.
the programme for me was a sad one. I have seem evidence of this myself and it left me feeling cold. I don't like to see any type of agression in the game except for the neccassary aggression for playing with a passion. certainly not on the terraces. Many games I have been to have been spoilt for me by fans getting aggressive and fighting with racist chants. I indeed count myself fortunate to follow a team where it seems as if we have been somewhat insulated by this to a large degree, but I have heard comments and talk from a few which suggests that we are not all as liily white as we like to believe.
What are your true thoughts.

[HeavenAndHele]

I think Torquay is one of the more tolerant teams in the country, being one of the few that has had a black manager and (on a related note) one of the first to take on Justin Fashanu after he came out when many clubs wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. I also seem to remember a thread on here about racist comments in the crowd being swiftly dealt with by those around the individual concerned. None of which is any reason to be complacent, of course.
I'd like to think we would welcome Asian players as much as any other and get behind them, certainly judging by the programme there is a huge untapped group of players that are crying out for league clubs to take them on. Personally I couldn't care less if a player is white, brown or purple, as long as he can kick a ball.

[stevegull]

With regards to Asian players, I think that this is a bit of a moo point (fans of friends will understand that).

As in ANY career, I think role models is one of the main things that affects how a person tries to find their way into work. So in my opinion the lack of Asian players in the English Leagues doesn't show racism from clubs, I think it shows that generally perhaps young Asians are finding role models in different sports or careers and persuing that, rather than football. I realize this has all been horribly worded but I hope it gets my point across.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I'm not attempting to defend racism here and i didn't see the programme but maybe there aren't many black managers in the game because statistically there are a lot fewer applicants for jobs than white managers therefore the numbers are going to be a lot less. Many black ex-players tend to find their way into media work therefore maybe not many want to become managers anyway. I'm just trying to find angles in instead of just saying everyones racist all the time which occasionally does annoy me although i accept it is still a problem and one that needs eradicating completely.

[EmetEdadsBeard]

Racism in football only exists in the eyes of the media. 99.99% of fans dont give a flying what background players are from if they're good enough. There are few asians (by that we mean people of Pakistani/ Indian backgrounds, not oriental asiatics) because they quite simply aren't good enough. Also they do tend to play hockey and cricket, the National sports of their parents/grandparents rather than football.
I'll ask a similar question.
Why aren't there any Pacific Islanders playing pro football in England? Tongans, Western Samoans, Cook Islanders? Because they all play Rugby, thats why, and they have loads who have played in Superleague and the ARL.

End of debate. 8/

[ferrarilover]

I've seen Oriental football first hand (Shanghai Shenhua, the poster team of the Chinese Premier League) and it's **** ing awful. Honestly, with absolutely no exaggeration, TUFC would beat Shanghai 10-0 with no trouble at all. I watched the game with a Plymouth fan (among others) and even he said that the football was the worst he's ever seen, that's how bad they were.
It's just so slow and inaccurate and predictable. A bit like Fleetwood but in slow-motion. This is why there are no Oriental players over here, because they're not any good.

If you're looking for racism in sport, ask yourself why, in a sport in which 90% of players are black, American Football has just 1% black quarterbacks (i.e. one), the stars of the show and the highest earners?

Matt.

[happytorq]

I've seen Oriental football first hand (Shanghai Shenhua, the poster team of the Chinese Premier League) and it's f**k ing awful. Honestly, with absolutely no exaggeration, TUFC would beat Shanghai 10-0 with no trouble at all. I watched the game with a Plymouth fan (among others) and even he said that the football was the worst he's ever seen, that's how bad they were.
It's just so slow and inaccurate and predictable. A bit like Fleetwood but in slow-motion. This is why there are no Oriental players over here, because they're not any good.

If you're looking for racism in sport, ask yourself why, in a sport in which 90% of players are black, American Football has just 1% black quarterbacks (i.e. one), the stars of the show and the highest earners?

Matt.

Oooh, you can't say "Oriental" any more!!

Anyway just on your final point - while there's no doubt that black players are proportionally under-represented in the quarterback position, the assertion that there is only 1 (presumably you mean Michael Vick) is inaccurate. In the last 2 years two black QBs have been taken in the first 2 picks of the drafts; Cam Newton in 2011 was picked first - and then proceeded to have the best rookie year from any QB, probably ever (most passing yards, most rushing TDs, etc etc). Then, this year, Robert Griffin III was taken second; some people think he could end up being better than the first pick (Andrew Luck).

Probably has been down to race in the past, though.

[ferrarilover]

You can definitely say Oriental.

I did mean Vick, hadn't spotted the other two you mentioned, will follow more closely this season (if they can get the officials sorted out).

Matt.

[Glostergull]

Racism in football only exists in the eyes of the media. 99.99% of fans dont give a flying what background players are from if they're good enough. There are few asians (by that we mean people of Pakistani/ Indian backgrounds, not oriental asiatics) because they quite simply aren't good enough. Also they do tend to play hockey and cricket, the National sports of their parents/grandparents rather than football.
I'll ask a similar question.
Why aren't there any Pacific Islanders playing pro football in England? Tongans, Western Samoans, Cook Islanders? Because they all play Rugby, thats why, and they have loads who have played in Superleague and the ARL.

End of debate. 8/

That may be correct for overseas Asians playing overseas. The main thrust of my point was about Asian Players who are born and bred British, Live and play here. I assume you didn't watch the programme. It looked at among others, An Asin team near London I think. They were made up of players of Asian Background who clearly were good enough for consideration by any English club. They also looked at the County Team which I thought was Hertfordshire. The theory put forward by the Professional players was that any player who captains the county team or highest scorer for the county would normaly have a host of clubs after him or he would already be signed to a League club. It was almost unheard of for the captain of a major county team like Herts to not have thier captain tied to a league Club. It was said that he had been touted by some but certain individuals within the game had made sure he never got signed.
This brings a totaly different light on it. If he was prevented from signing for whoever had looked at him for his race then I would be prepared to upset the apple cart and make an approach. I do wonder then what would the repercussions be if those who were working against this put pressure on agents to make sure I never signed who I wanted to again.
I think you get my drift
Those who think that racism does not exist. try watching Luton town, West Ham. etc. And one or two other London teams. I have been among thier fans when things have not been quite as angelic as you would think. The racists chants and slurs coming out of thier mouths leaves you in no doubt what they believe.

[stevegull]

That may be correct for overseas Asians playing overseas. The main thrust of my point was about Asian Players who are born and bred British, Live and play here. I assume you didn't watch the programme. It looked at among others, An Asin team near London I think. They were made up of players of Asian Background who clearly were good enough for consideration by any English club. They also looked at the County Team which I thought was Hertfordshire. The theory put forward by the Professional players was that any player who captains the county team or highest scorer for the county would normaly have a host of clubs after him or he would already be signed to a League club. It was almost unheard of for the captain of a major county team like Herts to not have thier captain tied to a league Club. It was said that he had been touted by some but certain individuals within the game had made sure he never got signed.
This brings a totaly different light on it. If he was prevented from signing for whoever had looked at him for his race then I would be prepared to upset the apple cart and make an approach. I do wonder then what would the repercussions be if those who were working against this put pressure on agents to make sure I never signed who I wanted to again.
I think you get my drift
Those who think that racism does not exist. try watching Luton town, West Ham. etc. And one or two other London teams. I have been among thier fans when things have not been quite as angelic as you would think. The racists chants and slurs coming out of thier mouths leaves you in no doubt what they believe.

I don't think anyone's suggesting racism doesn't exist. I think what people are trying to say that, in some circumstances, the media try to create an image of a racist environment when sometimes that's simply not the case. For example, when the show in question just stated that (something like) 3% of the English leagues were made up of Asian players and implied that it was because of racism; I think that is very cheeky. There are so many other factors that can link to it. Another example could be that only 5% of players in the 'Aussie Rules' league are English (I've completely made that up, although i doubt it's beyond the realms of possibility). I could suggest that the lack of English players playing 'Aussie Rules' is because the Australian people are racist toward the English. Frankly, that argument is proposterous and we all know that English people are unlikely to become an 'Aussie Rules' player as it's not part of our culture.

[Glostergull]

I don't think anyone's suggesting racism doesn't exist. I think what people are trying to say that, in some circumstances, the media try to create an image of a racist environment when sometimes that's simply not the case. For example, when the show in question just stated that (something like) 3% of the English leagues were made up of Asian players and implied that it was because of racism; I think that is very cheeky. There are so many other factors that can link to it. Another example could be that only 5% of players in the 'Aussie Rules' league are English (I've completely made that up, although i doubt it's beyond the realms of possibility).. Frankly, that argument is proposterous and we all know that English people are unlikely to become an 'Aussie Rules' player as it I could suggest that the lack of English players playing 'Aussie Rules' is because the Australian people are racist toward the English's not part of our culture.[/quote]

I doubt an sane Englishman would consider playing Aussie Rules Football. To call it football is a contradiction in terms. It would suite the More vocal element of nutters in the EDL around Luton who want a good ruck. I mean to say Have you seen the game. It's more violent that Rugby. Boxing, Teakwondo.Junior Monopoly. Bare Knuckle fighting put together.

[AustrianAndyGull]

With the events in Serbia this week and Lazio today being fined for their fans making monkey chants at Spurs players racism has reared it's ugly head again. When you,ve got certain clubs in Russia not or never signing a black player because the fans won't accept it, problems in most of Eastern Europe including Italy, Spain and Portugal it makes me realize that England fans, who i once despised for being total brainless idiots are now amongst the best behaved and tolerant in Europe and they should be immensely proud of that. We all know that eastern europe has always had a massive and i would say unsolvable problem with racism but the increase of it in places like Spain and Italy really makes me think that the footballing authorities need to get their fingers out of their arses, heads out of the sand and get something done about it because it's a f*cking disgrace.

[AustrianAndyGull]

But hey, so long as you wear a t-shirt then that's ok. That is going to make one hell of a difference. Well done.

[stevegull]

What do you lot think about the rumours of a black players union?

Personally I think it's a terrible idea. Why would any black players want to separate themselves from an association where they already are seen as equals by the men at the top.

I know these recent incidents haven't made football look good, with most people particularly annoyed with lack of severe punishment for John Terry. However, I think the FA has stated their reasons for the reduced ban against the Suarez v Evra case. They said that Suarez's abuse to Evra was constant and always rerring to race whereas Terry was accused of a 'heat of the moment' remark that referred to race. They said that meant his ban should be less severe, and I kind of see their point to be honest.

Creating their own black players union would just separate them from the current equality all footballers have.

Also, refusing to wear the 'kick it out' shirt seems a strange decision to me to show your frustration at the current situation. I understand that 'Kick it out' has remarkably low funding from the public and only serves to promote the message of getting racism out of football. They have no responsibility when it comes to dishing out fines and bans. That's the FA's job. If you're upset with them, tell them. Uniting behind the 'kick it out' message would be the best thing to do in my view. Gives everyone watching the game a clear message. Football is against racism.

[cambgull]

I'm just looking forward to the day I see John Terry and Suarez wearing a kick it out t-shirt.

So I can kick them.