Alan Smith

[Lloyder5]

Actually, he's only partly right. Fitness, speed and agility; unlikely that professional players of the 60s would match current professionals. Ability and match awareness well, a different story. I think Mark Lawrenceson once said that if his Liverpool team played the then Liverpool team, the opposition wouldn't get the ball for an hour but after that it would be a different story.

[tomogull]

I made my Plainmoor debut in the early seventies, so don't recall the golden age. I would say that Colin Anderson, Paul Holmes, Colin Lee, Mike Mahoney, Wes Saunders, Matt Elliott, Alex Russell, Jason Fowler and David Graham to name a few could be added to a list of quality players.

....... and Dave Caldwell

[MellowYellow]

Lots of Nostalgia about the golden years. I remember Torquay leading the table during Easter 1968, United got their first ever coverage on Match of the Day, beating promotion rivals Bury 3–0 in front of more than 10,000 fans at Plainmoor; however a poor run-in saw United finish fourth, two points behind the promoted teams. Still we were streets ahead in terms of footballing skill than the like of Watford, Bournemouth (where are they now?) and current lower tier teams such as Brighton and Reading Still remember there old grounds Reading's Elms Park and Brighton's Goldstone Ground both a far cry from their current stadia.

[Gulliball]

Actually, he's only partly right. Fitness, speed and agility; unlikely that professional players of the 60s would match current professionals. Ability and match awareness well, a different story. I think Mark Lawrenceson once said that if his Liverpool team played the then Liverpool team, the opposition wouldn't get the ball for an hour but after that it would be a different story.

Exactly this. There's not a chance in hell that players 50 years ago were fitter, faster, stronger or more agile than the players today. With video technology and other advances then the players of today will also be well ahead in terms of tactics match awareness.

It's a bit like people complaining every year that 'exams are getting easier' when each new year does better than all previous ones. It's not something you have to take offence over, it's not a slight on previous generations, it's just how evolution works.

You can only realistically compare players to others of the same era. We were a third tier side at our best and are now a fifth tier side at our worst.

[MellowYellow]

Different era, different game. Fitter and faster counted for nothing in day's gone by. You were just hacked to death by men with nicknames such as 'Chopper' "Bit Ye Legs" "Hacker". As for being stronger that's debatable but I venture to say players were a lot harder in the 50's/60's/70's No camera's, rules on tackling more lenient, barging the goalkeeper permitted, no substitutes till 67/68 etc. Very few small players back then could survive the slings and arrows and assaults of those football’s brutes. It would have been interesting to know if little Messi, just 5ft 6in and 10st 8lb, could have survive the game back then. So you see as the rule of the game change it became impossible to compare football from different era's as they were just different games.

If you were to pick a team from the 50's/60's and play them against a team made up from today crop of players who would win? Well it all depends on the set of rules they will be playing too.

[tomogull]

Different era, different game. Fitter and faster counted for nothing in day's gone by. You were just hacked to death by men with nicknames such as 'Chopper' "Bit Ye Legs" "Hacker". As for being stronger that's debatable but I venture to say players were a lot harder in the 50's/60's/70's No camera's, rules on tackling more lenient, barging the goalkeeper permitted, no substitutes till 67/68 etc. Very few small players back then could survive the slings and arrows and assaults of those football’s brutes. It would have been interesting to know if little Messi, just 5ft 6in and 10st 8lb, could have survive the game back then.

Hmmm ..... not quite true, MellowYellow. Our highest ever goalscorer, Sam Collins, wasn't a particularly big lad and neither was Harold Dobbie, a centre forward during the sixties. Also, older fans will remember Graham Bond who was only about 5ft 6 ins and he could look after himself, and Micky Somers on the wing was even shorter. So although the game was definitely harder, the little guys could look after themselves.

[tomogull]

....... and current lower tier teams such as Brighton and Reading Still remember there old grounds Reading's Elms Park and Brighton's Goldstone Ground both a far cry from their current stadia.

Now don't get Forever started on a new stadium !!!!

[stefano]

Some lovely memories rekindled by this thread which is really an obituary to the lovely man Mr Alan Smith. Whilst he had the nickname wacker, he was a very cultured player particularly for a full back in those days, when the term wacker justifiably was apt for many, wacking the ball forwards with distance being more important than direction, and wacking any opponent who came within 10 feet. Mr Smith could certainly handle himself, but he could play as well!

Reading through the thread I had the great privilege to play with several of those mentioned - Andy donnelly, Tony Scott, Alan Welsh, and John Benson in the Western League with the reserves - and Tommy Northcott in the South Western League with Newton Abbot Spurs. It is a bit difficult these days to imagine such good players to be playing in the reserves, but of course there was then only one substitute so the first team only had 13 players involved in each game (the 13th being the extra man who could replace anybody who became ill or injured but only before the game started). We had over 20 professional players in those days, so those not in the first team 13 got playing and fitness time in the reserves.

I cannot recall ever playing a game with Alan Smith, but he did regularly come to our Tuesday and Thursday training sessions for the club amateur players along with fellow professionals Geoff Cox and Doug Clark, to assist the reserve & youth team trainer Don Mills. All of them were fitness fanatics and although they had been training during the day they were more than happy to give it another go in the evening.

Alan Smith did actually sign for Newton Abbot Spurs at the same time as Tommy Northcott, but by then his knee injury had got too much and he did not make an appearance. Something I was quite pleased about at the time as being in the same position he would of course have kept me out of the side!!

A disappointing thought when reading through the thread, and emphasised by Brucie in the way that only Brucie can (it's no wonder Wivel agrees with him!), is that I have almost without doubt seen the best days. I have always hoped that before I died I would see Torquay United have at least one season in the Championship. That is a place we should have got to and deserved to get to once in the 1950's (when we finished 2nd but only one team got promoted) and then three times in the 1960's with 7th, 4th, and 6th place finishes. No play-offs in those days of course to give us a second chance!

I am sure that the lovely man Mr Alan Smith would have loved to have seen the same, but he has run out of time as those of us priveleged to see the great Torquay team of the 1960's will undoubtedly do as well.

[wivelgull]

Mind you, Alan Smith could be - and was at times - a 'hard man'. You needed such characters in your defence (and one might argue you do now), but Alan Smith was also possessed of considerable ability; so 'hardness' and ability combined were great assets.
Incidentally I think (though I am not certain) that 'Wacker' is a nickname sometime given to those with a Liverpool background, which I thin Alan Smith had, and so could explain the term.

[stefano]

Yes I think you are right about the nickname Mr Wivel, I just used poetic licence to give it different connotations!

Linked I think to that annoyingly distinctive scouse accent!