A couple of months in

jonnyfive · Post by **jonnyfive** » 31 Oct 2013, 17:57

As per usual, Hector gives a balanced and justified perspective on things.

Unlike certain others who constantly espouse their polarised views (Woe is us, the Conference beckons / We are outplaying everyone, Knilly must have broken a mirror!), here is the voice of an experienced Gulls fan.

The team are not winning games, but this is not a relegation squad. It is frustrating that Knill doesn't seem able to get the most out of them, but we are assuredly not one of the worst two teams in this turgid set of 24.

Every Summer a groundswell of us say we'd be happy with mid-table. How far are we from that? Not a million miles.

berkshire yellow · Post by **berkshire yellow** » 31 Oct 2013, 18:15

I remember at around this point last season speaking to an Aldershot fan saying the same thing as us (losing but not a relegation squad) and they wen't down! I personally think we'll stay up but we need to turn things round soon or else I think we will go down, lets get a run going COYY

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 31 Oct 2013, 19:03

jonnyfive wrote:As per usual, Hector gives a balanced and justified perspective on things.

Unlike certain others who constantly espouse their polarised views (Woe is us, the Conference beckons / We are outplaying everyone, Knilly must have broken a mirror!), here is the voice of an experienced Gulls fan.

The team are not winning games, but this is not a relegation squad. It is frustrating that Knill doesn't seem able to get the most out of them, but we are assuredly not one of the worst two teams in this turgid set of 24.

Every Summer a groundswell of us say we'd be happy with mid-table. How far are we from that? Not a million miles.

I don't think anyone would disagree with this J5 or much of your post other than do we actually LOOK like travelling those million miles at the moment and the answer is a humongous no. That is the issue here. We all know our squad is fairly solid and Knill is not doing a very good job at the minute but is he capable of turning it around given he has MADE a solid mid table team look like relegation candidates in the first place? :~D

jonnyfive · Post by **jonnyfive** » 31 Oct 2013, 20:39

Fair comment Andy. For what it's worth, I didn't view you as one of those with extreme, exaggerated views. At the moment, anyway ;0)

It occurred to me that when people say they'd be happy with a mid-table finish, they envisage a jolly season, bobbing along in 10th or so. We're not shockingly poor; not getting gubbed every week.

I feel sure we'll finish 11-20th. With a stable board and management team, and core of decent players, we can look to push on next year. Isn't that how football used to work?

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 31 Oct 2013, 20:47

Yep fair points J5, i'll be elated with mid table for sure. Another big concern of mine is something I've been saying for a while now because of the disruption to the team by Knill (and injuries / suspensions ) and it is team spirit and togetherness. We can have a team filled with decent players but if they have no identity, no focus due to being picked then dropped then picked then dropped then this could become a bigger problem than it need be.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 31 Oct 2013, 21:41

AustrianAndyGull wrote:I'm not really into stats Hector although it makes interesting reading.

IMO Knill has 3 shots at beating either Accy, Bury or Scunny. Four points from these 3 and a certain loss against Chesterfield would be the bare minimum he could get away with. That's not to mention the FA Cup game at home to Rochdale which must not be lost at home. A win obviously would be great but a replay is again the bare minimum.

I believe these targets are perfectly reasonable and attainable for a squad such as ours and given the fact that 3 of the 5 teams are almost as crap as we are at the moment.

November is going to be very interesting anyway.

I don't think that the Board will look at it exactly like this, but I suspect you are on the right lines. I would guess that they will make their decision at the end of November when 19 league games will have been played. November is another 5 match month, & the 5 matches in October only produced 2 points. I would not like to hazard a guess as to exactly how many points he will need to save his job, but it will certainly be a lot more than 2. they may also expect a good cup run to help pay for all of Knill's loan signings. Giving Knill 19 games ( plus the cup games ) to produce the goods is quite fair,& would also give the new manager 27 games to get us out of the sh#t, & get the players playing as a team.

jonnyfive · Post by **jonnyfive** » 31 Oct 2013, 22:12

19 games is a fair spell after which to bin a manager?! Really?

rooster · Post by **rooster** » 31 Oct 2013, 22:40

14 last season, plus 19 this with very little to show i would tend to agree. How many do you think ?

jonnyfive · Post by **jonnyfive** » 31 Oct 2013, 23:13

But the Board appointed him in July, so he was the man they wanted at that point. The end of the last campaign was apparently seen as a successful trial period, so from their perspective those 14 matches will not be evidence of failure.

5 or 10 years ago, we in this country used to tut and shake our heads at the european 'hire 'em/fire 'em' attitude towards managers.

As an absolute minimum, our brand new boss should be given until Christmas.

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 31 Oct 2013, 23:45

Why are people still pointing at last season? He was chucked in at the deep end, asked to salvage what he could from a squad which had picked up 3 points from the last 465 games (or whatever). We could have appointed SAF and not done any better than we did with Knill. What were you expecting, a Playoff charge?

He's had 14 games. No, the table doesn't look good, but there is so more to the job of the manager (especially at clubs like ours) and, in terms of the other elements which we supporters can see, he's done pretty well (would, for example, you rather see Danny Stevens or Jordan Chappell on the team sheet?)
There are also a million and one other things for which he is responsible which supporters never see. I have almost no insight into that world, so couldn't possibly comment as to his effectiveness in those areas, but if he's not dreadful at those either, he comes out as really not too bad an appointment, I'd imagine.

Matt.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 31 Oct 2013, 23:48

jonnyfive wrote:But the Board appointed him in July, so he was the man they wanted at that point. The end of the last campaign was apparently seen as a successful trial period, so from their perspective those 14 matches will not be evidence of failure.

5 or 10 years ago, we in this country used to tut and shake our heads at the european 'hire 'em/fire 'em' attitude towards managers.

As an absolute minimum, our brand new boss should be given until Christmas.

If you read my post again you will see that I am guessing that the board will give Knill 19 matches ( until the end of Nov. ) before they make a decision, not the 14 matches you have mentioned. In any case there are only two more league matches before Xmas. Far better to get rid of him in early Dec. & give the new bloke some "thinking time" before Knill signs a new load of loan players, & the Jan. transfer window opens.

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 31 Oct 2013, 23:53

I don't know why people keep on about sacking him before January. Jan is only relevant to teams who have plans on signing people.
If we sack Knill, we'll be £100k in the red, so we might be selling a few, but we certainly won't be buying anyone, so January is meaningless.

Matt.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 01 Nov 2013, 00:00

ferrarilover wrote:Why are people still pointing at last season? He was chucked in at the deep end, asked to salvage what he could from a squad which had picked up 3 points from the last 465 games (or whatever). We could have appointed SAF and not done any better than we did with Knill. What were you expecting, a Playoff charge?

He's had 14 games. No, the table doesn't look good, but there is so more to the job of the manager (especially at clubs like ours) and, in terms of the other elements which we supporters can see, he's done pretty well (would, for example, you rather see Danny Stevens or Jordan Chappell on the team sheet?)
There are also a million and one other things for which he is responsible which supporters never see. I have almost no insight into that world, so couldn't possibly comment as to his effectiveness in those areas, but if he's not dreadful at those either, he comes out as really not too bad an appointment, I'd imagine.

Matt.

Yes! you are quite right no point in looking at his record last season, or whether he won the Champions League with Scunthorpe. The only relevant stats. are his record this season, since he has had the chance to get his own players in & build his own team over the summer.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 01 Nov 2013, 00:03

ferrarilover wrote:I don't know why people keep on about sacking him before January. Jan is only relevant to teams who have plans on signing people.
If we sack Knill, we'll be £100k in the red, so we might be selling a few, but we certainly won't be buying anyone, so January is meaningless.

Matt.

Ever heard of free transfers Matt?

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 01 Nov 2013, 00:07

Free transfers is a misnomer.

Matt.

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