A Question for the Board of Directors

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Post by PhilGull »

ferrarilover wrote:Can't reply properly now, but wage CAP is what is killing us more than anything right now (we suspect).

SOME firms of accountants are sh*t, ours may well not be.

SOME directors of SOME companies are useless old duffers, nothing says ours are.

The Colin Lee saga was a lesson for the previous Board (featuring, admittedly, a number of present members) which the new Board will doubtless have heeded.

12 came from a reliable website, but that is based on the most recent set of filed accounts, so could well have been updated before the recent reshuffle.

Not scathing, you're right to be worried, you just need to be open to persuasion to the contrary. The Board are fine. They're not world beaters (or whatever the equivalent is), but they'll certainly never let us live beyond our means. That is infinitely preferable to doing what every other club in the League does and pissing away money after money chasing the highly improbable dream, only to see it all come crashing down around their ears a matter of months later and all for the boast of having had 'top-flight' football for a year or two.

Matt.
Matt, I don't want you to think I'm having a go just because of who you are, I'm simply interested to see how you reconcile your statement highlighted above with your loathing of the wage cap.
As I see it the wage cap is there not just to stop Man City walking away with the Premier League (which it does nothing to stop but that's another story) but it is there to help keep clubs alive and stop repeats of the Portsmouth saga.

Even without the wage cap I would be surprised, given the dismal picture you paint of the club's finances, that the board would allow any manager to spend more money than we are currently.
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Post by ferrarilover »

There is more to overspending than simply paying too much each week. We could start heading out into the market and paying 2 or 3 hundred thousand pounds for players. We could offer them £1000/week (less than elsewhere), but give them a £100,000 signing on fee, a car allowance, a housing allowance, a Nando's allowance (whatever the hell a Nando is). Our Board simply won't do that. Nor will we be following the Darlington/Rovers/Plymouth route and building some massive white elephant on the Field of Dreams basis that 'if you build it, they will come'.

Matt.
It would be frighteningly easy for the Board here to spend millions we don't have in a very short space of time and destroy the club entirely. It's also possible (as far as I know, those with financial backgrounds may know better than I) for Thea (or another backer, buy with much less disastrous consequences) to simply walk away and take her investment out with her. That would leave us penniless and destitute.

Yes, it would be a surprise, a very great surprise, but it could happen and it's a conscious choice by the Board not to allow this to take place. For this, they deserve both thanks and recognition for behaving differently from the norm. If some of our insane members had their way, we'd have a squad of 40, with four first team quality players for every position, each of whom would need to earn £1000/week at the very least. Plus we'd have a bill for £120,000 for sacking Knill and Brass, we'd need a budget to appoint someone new (**** knows who, I've asked but none of our nutters have bothered to answer).
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Post by portugull »

Thank you to Andrew Candy for clarifying that he is not a Director of TUFC.

On the OS under the heading DIRECTORS sub heading TORQUAY UNITED BOARDROOM the Directors are listed, most with a photo, including Andrew. The list starts with Thea Bristow then the 3 Vice Chairmen followed by Andrew Candy Chief Executive.

What I missed was a sub heading after Andrew Candy entitled "Directors".

With respect I think it is very misleading.No offence Andrew just pointing out the list is more than a little confusing.
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Post by portugull »

My initial post yesterday was simply to try and get some idea how much the Playing Budget represented as a % of total estimated income.

I admit I have no idea but it clearly varies enormously from club to club.

My big worry is the danger of loosing our Football League status.

I really do not want my question to be seen as a criticism of the Board . I am just seeking some reassurance that the Board have some sort of contingency given our awful run of injuries to key players.
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Post by hector »

Southampton Gull wrote:£500k in transfer fees, another play-off campaign, new stand................ we really have gone backwards since he left.

You actually are that thick aren't you?
So, on the pitch, we are doing better then? Play-offs, followed by escaping relegation on the last day, followed by what is going on now. Yes, someone thick would call that making progress.
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Play-off campaign ending with losing the spine of our decent team for half a mil. Yes infinitely better since he left.

I bet your picnic is a barrel of laughs..............
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Post by Dave_Pougher »

Rarely to I contribute these days, but please trust me when I say the club is far far richer (in more ways that one) since Colin lee left.
Am I right in saying his actions cost the club his own sponsorship from this forum?
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Dave, you are correct.
Some thick people would rather he was still here.
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Post by Glostergull »

ferrarilover wrote:I've had a look, and it does seem to be a relatively large Board (although it's 12 members, rather than 14). However, we have a very flat management structure, so it's hardly as though we have reams and reams of Vice-Chairmen or middle-managers to contend with.

You don't regularly read of anything of the sort, unless you re-read the same piece of news time and again. We have seven members of the coaching staff, one one of those isn't really a coach at all, he's the performance analyst who happens to chip in with the nippers when he can.

Do you honestly think that we're pumping these mystery millions that everyone is so sure we have squirreled away into the poxy youth team? We, as a club, have basically bugger all. We are paying off a sh*t load of off field investments in order to establish the club as a proper professional outfit and not one with half a ground and no training pitch. I know a lot of you don't want me to be right and a lot of you would argue the sky was green if I told you it was blue but you really need to take my word for this: Torquay United is broke. Brassic. Penniless. Poor. Financially ruined. Out of dosh. Without recourse to funds.

Knilly has at his disposal a budget which is in the five smallest in the division. That's not because the youth team go everywhere by helicopter and feast on caviar and foie gras, but because we, as a business, generate barely enough money to keep the wolf from the door at the best of times. Deano Edwards (with a little help from those who are so minded) is working his balls off to get money into the club. The big screen is helping, as are the other initiatives which he is presently championing. I've seen first hand his ability to generate ideas out of almost nothing. He's a master of the art and we owe him a lot. In conjunction with the Candyman, those two are basically keeping the club afloat as we head through the season. Losing key players left, right and centre is hurting us more off the pitch than it is on it and Knilly is pulling off some unbelievable deals to secure players that a club with our available funds (i.e. zero pounds, zero pence) has absolutely no right to be getting hold of.
We are hampered presently too by the wage cap imposed upon us in order to attempt to restrain Manchester City from simply buying the Premier League title every year. Quite who thought that was a good idea, I don't know, but he wants bloody shooting. Bristol Rovers are in the same boat, but they deserve everything they get for offering Championship wages in L2 (allegedly, I don't actually know this to be true).

Further to your assertion that the Board are a bunch of dingbats who can't boast so much as a maths GCE between them, do you honestly believe they are stupid enough to not have employed an accountancy firm to do the books and explain to them all, in very short sentences, how much money they have to spend?
Additionally, on our Board, we have the MD of a successful and profitable flooring business, A solicitor who is at Partner level and specialises in business and commercial law. Another man who is currently on the Board of 5 profitable companies. One man who is MD of his own successful hardware store and others that I can't be arsed to look up. Our Board are perfectly conversant in matters financial.

So no, you needn't worry that the Board are pissing our budget up the wall by funding the youth team in preference to the first XI. Ok?

Matt.
Hi Matt and others.

I don't quite know how you think this information is accurate. Bristol Rovers most definitely are not paying anything like Championship wages. In fact their budget was cut most dramatically a couple of years ago which is why they are have a hard time of it. The last time they paid anything like big money was when players like Chris Lines and an almost unheard of guy called Lambert were there (wonder what happened to him).
Since then the budget has been slashed by half. True they were paying out 4k weekly to more than a couple of guys but they have moved on and since then their budget has been trimmed to paying not much more than we can. Their budget is higher than ours but they have used it to have a larger squad.
The next point is. Their stadium. This is not pie in the sky for them. The crowds are lower now due to lack of optimism. Lack of facilities. i.e. crap bogs. seats etc. lots of legal wrangling with various bodies for which I wish them well because it has a knock on effect to all clubs. They have a huge fan base and I have no doubt at all that if UWE gets built which I think it will their crowds will treble at least for a couple of seasons if they don't get success and longer if they do.
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Post by Glostergull »

gullintwoplaces wrote: Completely agree, one or two of the comments on here are quite unbelievable. It's all a bit Monty Python, what have the Romans ever done for us?


Well They built the roads. Assuming of course I am addressing the popular front of judea. or is it the judean popular front.
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Post by arcadia »

With all the financial problems I hope the directors are watching the progress of Bideford. Sean Joyce has taken them through several divisions in non-league. If an experienced person was put with him such as Colin Lee or Chris Hargreaves it could be a future management pairing. Remember Sean is an ex-Gull.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Could be arcadia but we're stuck with Knill for richer for poorer and we've all got to cross our fingers and hope he has something between his ears after all. We've no money to keep sacking folk willy nilly and although I do think it was right to sack Ling i don't blame the board for any of what is happening at the minute. We've got a comfortable mid table squad showing the form of near relegation candidates (even before injuries) and they aren't at fault for that.

I think the football will improve under Knill and we'll be fine in the end but i will always feel that whatever Knill does he will be underachieving as i just don't believe he can get that extra out of his players on a regular-ish basis. It's just sad that we're all bickering again so soon after the last bout. Ding ding round two. The euphoric summer anticipation bubble has well and truly burst.
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Post by ferrarilover »

arcadia wrote:With all the financial problems I hope the directors are watching the progress of Bideford. Sean Joyce has taken them through several divisions in non-league. If an experienced person was put with him such as Colin Lee or Chris Hargreaves it could be a future management pairing. Remember Sean is an ex-Gull.
Dear Christ Almighty, people here have abysmal memories.

If Colin Lee (and his vast salary) were still here, we would have Mo Camara at left back and Eyesdown Christie leading the line.

Honestly, the mind boggles.

Matt.
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Post by arcadia »

There are people not in the know with regard to Colin Lee. I joined the club four years ago and would not know about finances until last year sorry if it brought memories back.
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Post by ferrarilover »

Due credit there then. Colin Lee was really not a good thing for us. He signed a LB called Mo Camara for some obscene sum of money (most of which he pocketed himself as a finder's fee). Camara played about 20 minutes in total and, suffice to say he made Nico look like Bobby Moore.

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