Has Alan Knill got his transfer strategy wrong?

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CP Gull

Has Alan Knill got his transfer strategy wrong?

Post by CP Gull »

No need for panic, just yet, but like a few on here I would imagine I am getting more concerned as the time passes and we get closer to the start of the season at the lack of new signings arriving at TQ1.

Don't get me wrong, I AM a big fan of Alan Knill and I like a lot of what he has to say, but I do wonder whether he has gone about things in the wrong way.

To get to the point, what I am concerned about is the "type" of players that Knill is trying to recruit. Traditionally, the " hunting grounds" for bringing new players to Torquay has largely been the South/ South West, South East and Midlands.

Now we don't know (apart from Roadrunner perhaps :nod: )too much as to who Knill is talking too but the players we are being linked with, suggest that he is looking at the North/North West with the likes of Tonge, Robertson, Nsiala and Mozika all traditionally based up there. Most of the other "names" we are supposed to be looking at (may of course be pure guesswork) also seem to be coming from that area too.

Now, in many ways, it is perfectly understandable for Knill to be looking at players he is familiar with first and foremost and given that all of his Managerial experience up until now has been in the North then what I am suggesting may be happening is not really that surprising, but it really is a long old way from the North of England to our south western outpost and much as we love it, it is certainly not every young mans cup of Tetley's!

My first concerns over his transfer recruitment policy was when we were in desperate need of additions in the run in last season. We kept hearing talk of him bringing in young strikers from the Academies of Man U, Liverpool, Everton etc, ultimately though we didn't succeed in bringing anyone in from those sources and the only players we did were Labadie (Nottingham) and Chapell (Sheffield).

By way of a different approach, I must mention John Sheridan down at Argyle, someone else who has been based in the North of England for much of his career. I recall him going on record as saying how difficult he had found it to recruit players down to Plymouth when he first got there, but ultimately he succeeded and brought some quality players in which were probably the only reason Argyle stayed up in the end. But look where he got his players from ... Branno (lives in the Bay), Charles (ex Aldershot), Banton (Crystal Palace), Bryan (Bristol City) and Reid (Yeovil).

Sheridan has continued to build in the summer with the likes of McCormick (ex Plymouth), Blizzard (Yeovil) while Reid (Yeovil) has returned and there is plenty of talk of the imminent return of Banton (Palace) too. He has still gone back for an "old boy" of his from the North (Allessandra) but other than that his recruitment targets have all come form the South/South West.

Given the massive (by our standards) number of players that have left us over the summer, it is vitally Important that Alan Knill gets this right and he must look at targets that are realistic both in terms of experience (are they prepared to play in L2) wages (can we afford to pay them what they want) and location ( are they going to uproot to the South West). I don't doubt for one minute he has been working extremely hard but I really hope it hasn't all been a fruitless exercise, because if it has been then we are really up against it now.

I know the season start is over a month away, but Knill himself has said that ideally you would want your squad in place by the start of pre season, that (as the man himself has said) is clearly not going to happen now and it seems at a time when ideally in the first two or three weeks of the return to training he should be working with the new squad he will still be spending most of his time trying to recruit the 7,8 or 9 players needed to complete our squad. As for sending them off to the Marine camp next week to " bond" like we did last season it would normally be a great idea, but in reality we may well only have a dozen or so guys in attendance all of whom know each other and have already bonded with each other last season, together with maybe a few trialists (if indeed the invitation extends to them) who may or may not have a future at TUFC.

No need for panic, like I say, but I am genuinely concerned, as something doesn't seem quite right to me.
Last edited by CP Gull on 28 Jun 2013, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by exiledgull »

Didn't we finish above Plymouth last year?

We cannot really comment on the right approach or wrong approach until the players arrive with us. If we go into the season with this squad then yes we have got it wrong.

But if we sign Tonge/Gutteridge/Mozika/Chapell/ a centre half/ manset / benyon then would you say it's not the right policy.

I agree in so much it's squeaky bum time and we do not know, is AK running around panicking or is he sat in the office knowing that things are on there way. The problem as fans is we do not know how close or far away a deal is. The only one that looks fairly concrete if Tonge as it was on our OS yesterday.

Lets be patient as we don't really have much other option unless we protest haha
CP Gull

Post by CP Gull »

exiledgull wrote:Didn't we finish above Plymouth last year?
Yes by a single point. However, when Sheridan joined them in early January, they were 9 points behind us and had played three games more than us. Much as I hate the Greens, I really don't think anyone can deny that, so far at least, Sheridan has done an excellent job down there. :devil:

Like I say, we don't know what exactly is happening, but I do think it is a little worrying that we haven't added perhaps three or four to our squad by now. Who knows though, maybe those players will be unveiled today .....
Last edited by CP Gull on 28 Jun 2013, 07:46, edited 1 time in total.
exiledgull
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Post by exiledgull »

AK only had a limited amount of time to bring in players to us and we managed 2 excellent players. JS had since janurary to recruit players. Hard to compare them in terms of player recruitment. I would rather take an extra 2/3 weeks for the players to arrive in to us than panic buy or pay people too much. Read a good article that AK said about players wages etc and was one of the best pieces I have read for a long time as he can finally relate to us the normal fans.

CP if he signed the players I mentioned above plus a trialist or two? Would you say it's been an excellent pre season in terms of recruitment?
Plymouth Gull

Post by Plymouth Gull »

I still don't think we need to panic. Two weeks ago there was nothing, and now we have at least 6 or 7 players that are being linked with us. Knill is obviously someone who likes to keep his cards close to his chest, so I personally think we'll be hearing some news about Tonge signing soon. AK seems a very careful person in the transfer market, and though we've lost a lot of players I think it suits him more that he has more space and money to work with.
CP Gull

Post by CP Gull »

Exiled, I would be delighted if he signs the likes of Tonge, Mozika, Manset, Benyon, Robertson, Chapell et al ... but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, he hasn't signed any of them yet!

Not that I go to them, but I guess the football close season is a bit like going to a Car Boot Sale. Is your strategy to get there early, beat the queue and snap up all the best quality things, probably paying top dollar, but still picking up the odd bargain now and then .... and leave early, or do you turn up late, near the end, in the hope that what you want is being sold off much cheaper as the seller just wants to clear their table and you get to pick up some real bargains. The danger being, with that strategy, of course, is that you might just end up with nothing or end up taking home a pile of £&@? that nobody else wants! ;-)
Last edited by CP Gull on 28 Jun 2013, 08:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fonda »

I am slightly concerned about our lack of signings - but with current contracts expiring next week would expect to see a few arriving over the next 7 days.

My concern is not that AK is targetting the wrong players though - he's been quite sensible in suggesting the need for players to visit the area, in order that they know exactly the logisitics involved in living down here.

My worry is that he's really up against it trying to fix the holes he needs to fix with the budget he's been handed. I have every confidence that with a competetive budget, he'd create a more than competetive squad. The names we've been linked with are exciting. But I do wonder if he's having to reign in his ambitions because of the (lack of) money in his pocket.

As I alluded to yesterday, the last time this level of squad building was required was in the conference. The major difference is that the manager of the time had a budget that compared favourably with the opposition. That is clearly not the case now.
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Post by Behind-the-Gulls »

CP Gull wrote:Exiled, I would be delighted if he signs the likes of Tonge, Mozika, Manset, Benyon, Robertson, Chapell et al ... but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, he hasn't signed any of them yet!

Not that I go to them, but I guess the football close season is a bit like going to a Car Boot Sale. Is your strategy to get there early, beat the queue and snap up all the best quality things, probably paying top dollar, but still picking up the odd bargain now and then .... and leave early, or do you turn up late, near the end, in the hope that what you want is being sold off much cheaper as the seller just wants to clear their table and you get to pick up some real bargains. The danger being, with that strategy, of course, is that you might just end up with nothing or end up taking home a pile of £&@? that nobody else wants! ;-)
Like the analogy CP! :goodpost:
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Post by Dave »

Don't think AK has got his transfer strategy wrong so far Chris. AK has said there are a number of players haggling over £50 as said yesterday, say yes to them all and thats a very quick way to add £12,000 to the clubs wage bill maybe more.

Think it's more of the case that AK has had his transfer strategy some what forced upon him, we all know our club has limited funds AK would have known that before he signed up, to me it appears AK is trying to get as much in terms of quailty players in for as little money as possible and all power to him for that.

Lower league clubs are cutting their squad numbers back, come 1st July there are going to a lot of pro's out of contract, and not enough squad spaces to go around, the good old saying 'a pro with no where to go' Is going to apply more than ever this summer, have a feeling that not all are going to find the golden egg contract and will soon be knocking on our door, as said don't panic until I start.. :)
Last edited by Dave on 28 Jun 2013, 08:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CP Gull »

Shane/Fonda

Although the point I am making is largely over the geography, I also share the same concerns with you and allude to it in my post in that are the players he is targeting realistic in terms of the level we are playing at and the wages these players will want ... and trying to fit that into what is I would suggest a lower end League 2 budget.

I felt last season he aimed too high in trying to persuade young "stars" (well probably in their own minds anyway!) to come out of the Academies at Man Utd and Liverpool and join little old Torquay at the other end of the country (doubt some of these guys would even have a clue where it is!) in a League 2 relegation dogfight. I suspect somehow that they didn't see that as particularly appealing or furthering their careers and ultimately AK was unsuccessful in his attempts to persuade them otherwise.

Dave/Frev

OK, let me know when to push the (panic) button!

I do agree that potentially it is a brilliant strategy, whether by design or not! There are still an awful lot of decent out of work pros out there and hopefully we will reap the rewards come the end of July/August when they have to start lowering their expectations!
Last edited by CP Gull on 28 Jun 2013, 08:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by exiledgull »

CP Gull wrote:Exiled, I would be delighted if he signs the likes of Tonge, Mozika, Manset, Benyon, Robertson, Chapell et al ... but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, he hasn't signed any of them yet!

Not that I go to them, but I guess the football close season is a bit like going to a Car Boot Sale. Is your strategy to get there early, beat the queue and snap up all the best quality things, probably paying top dollar, but still picking up the odd bargain now and then .... and leave early, or do you turn up late, near the end, in the hope that what you want is being sold off much cheaper as the seller just wants to clear their table and you get to pick up some real bargains. The danger being, with that strategy, of course, is that you might just end up with nothing or end up taking home a pile of £&@? that nobody else wants! ;-)
Or is it the case, you turn up early to the market have a good look around what's out there, think I want these 10 items but I only have money for 8 of them. But if these 10 items go I have a back up plan for them, that are just as good but maybe not in best of quality. Lets see if these items are still here come to the end of the market and if so I get 10 good items for the cost of 8. I've not seen anyone that we've been linked with sign elsewhere. So maybe AK looking to bring his wallet out and make offers for those 10 items but only really buy 8 of them.
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Post by cambgull »

Every time we have a conversation like this, I think back to what the Bury fan who came on here said. Knill takes his time over signings and often has the ability to sign a player who you just don't expect to sign for you. I have every belief that Knill will get the right players in and I hope there is a surprise in store for us. I'm not worried yet and I'm fully confident we will have a good team next season.
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Post by Plymouth Gull »

If Knill can pull off a few of the names that have been suggested (Manset, Mozika, Chappell) then he'll have done very well.

As I say, if we go into mid-July with no signings then that is a worrying time.
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Post by Jeff »

Another point to consider that was brought to us from Bury fans was that we should not be surprised if Knill assembles a team of "nobodies" who work perfectly together. I believe that was how their side was described when he took over, and delivered a season and three-quarters of success.

It would be great to see the big moves come off, but on the basis of the above we can't pass any judgement until a ball is kicked in anger.
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Post by brucie »

Another pointless thread - as I said before none of us have any idea what Knill is doing - lets hope he does.
Its is pointless saying that we will have a good squad if we sign Benyon,Manset etc etc etc. Take Benyon for example - there is absolutely no guarantee he will sign for us, same as the rest of them.
As for the proposed triallists well Robertson is certainly worth a look.
As for the other two - a bloke who got the boot from Telford and one who only completed half of a twelve month contract at Accrington hardly inspire any confidence whatsoever.
Things will only become clearer when we do make signings - for example if our first two signings are Tully and Mcphee I think it will be safe to say that Knill has got it wrong. But until that happens we just don't know.
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