This will probably (hopefully) cause some debate and I know we've had this argument many times, but I thought it was worth a thread of it's own.
When it comes to the loan system, it makes a big difference for teams at our level, and is often the difference between a promotion challenge and a mid table finish, or even relegation and survival.
In recent years, we have seen the likes of Labadie, Chappell, Benyon, Craig Stanley, Jake Robinson, Gavin Tomlin, Ronan Murray and many more during Buckle's time coming in to help the fight. It's fair to say that all of those players have added to the squad and gave us something different to what we had at the time. Although some were not massively successful, they were almost always better than what we already had.
So the question I pose today is, is it better to have an average player for a year being paid £500 a week, or have a good player for 6 months being paid £1k a week? The expenditure will be similar with housing costs and fees etc, it's just the time period and the quality of player is the main variant.
Thoughts?
The Loan System
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cambgull
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The Loan System
Luke.
"Successful applicants need not apply"
"Successful applicants need not apply"
At some point in the future I would like to see Nile Ranger(formerly of Newcastle United) come in on one of these deals.
He would then be known as the loan . . . . . .
He would then be known as the loan . . . . . .
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For the fear of making myself look fickle I will say again, I have in the past said many a time I am no fan of the loan system, infact I am no fan paying rent for anything, however if you can't afford house you would rent one, we are a club with limited funds, we clearly can't afford the right quality through out the entire squad, so renting becomes the next best option.
Cheltenham are a good example with 17 contracted players and 4 on loan, I have not checked but I believe we have gone through this season with 23 contracted players.
Cheltenham have gone less players concentrating more on quality with loan top ups, we gone for more players on a small buget and ended up with half a squad not really up to it, hence the reason we are, where we are.
For me just one look at our midfield squad shows a problem..Bodin, Macklin, Morris, Stevens, Craig, Thompson, all pretty much do the same job with Mansell, Lathrope and Easton all more defensive minded players.
You could easily take out 4 of these full time wages, I would say Morris,Macklin,Stevens and Easton, you then have some flexibilty to loan in a bit of extra quailty.
Cheltenham are a good example with 17 contracted players and 4 on loan, I have not checked but I believe we have gone through this season with 23 contracted players.
Cheltenham have gone less players concentrating more on quality with loan top ups, we gone for more players on a small buget and ended up with half a squad not really up to it, hence the reason we are, where we are.
For me just one look at our midfield squad shows a problem..Bodin, Macklin, Morris, Stevens, Craig, Thompson, all pretty much do the same job with Mansell, Lathrope and Easton all more defensive minded players.
You could easily take out 4 of these full time wages, I would say Morris,Macklin,Stevens and Easton, you then have some flexibilty to loan in a bit of extra quailty.
Formerly known as forevertufc
Sorry just to add, for me it simply is not about getting promoted to League 1 allthough that would be nice, to me the club has to be able to compete at the right end of League 2 season on season and it now appears greater use of the loan system might be our only way of doing this, and wait for our ever improving youth set up which will more and more deliver and then we should have enough strenght from home grown talent.
Some thing along the lines of Crewe who either have home grown players in their first team or used big transfer fee's to repalce those players lost, and have competed fine in League 1 this season.
Some thing along the lines of Crewe who either have home grown players in their first team or used big transfer fee's to repalce those players lost, and have competed fine in League 1 this season.
Formerly known as forevertufc
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cambgull
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Of course, I would much prefer to have a squad full of quality players but it just isn't going to happen. I would much prefer the route of loanees with a view to signing the better ones and gradually building a good squad.
Put simply, a small but quality squad from last season served us much better than the larger but all round lesser quality one from this season. Sometimes its nicer to rent a 5 bedroom house that costs the same as owning a 2 bed semi.
Put simply, a small but quality squad from last season served us much better than the larger but all round lesser quality one from this season. Sometimes its nicer to rent a 5 bedroom house that costs the same as owning a 2 bed semi.
Luke.
"Successful applicants need not apply"
"Successful applicants need not apply"
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royalgull
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One of the major things wrong with football today, caused by the Premier LEague, finances and the transfer window like most things wrong with modern football.
When I first started watching football (wasn't that long ago) loans were used but they genuinely were 'emergency loans' unlike the current meaning of this term which is basically extra loans. The only time you'd see a loan player at your club was if all of your goalies were injured, or if both your left backs were injured etc etc, teams never carried ridiculously huge squads then, 18 first team pro's probably. Changing from 3 to 5 and then to 7 subs obviously makes that a harder prospect but if you had an injury someone filled in, now as soon as someone gets a knock you have to get a loan player in.
I've ranted about the loan system before, simply because it gets abused and it doesn't benefit football END OF. A young player at 12/13 coming through the ranks at Torquay United should be coached and encouraged to learn his trade here. He should then work through the YTS scheme, Reserves, into the first team, do well in the first team get his games help the club that has helped him, then get sold for £xamount to a bigger club with a sell on, do well there move on to a Premier League club then the Premier League club gets the finished article, he's worked his way up and the 2 clubs previously both get the money they deserve for improving said player and those smaller clubs can then survive and try and bring more through. That's the way it should work. He should only then go out on loan if he isn't involved at the Premier League club then for whatever reason.
The problem I and football should have is this doesn't happen, you see young lads like John Bostock at Palace and I'm sure there are tons of 11/12 year olds around the country that are being taken away from their local clubs at no age, signing for Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs etc etc, where they have next to no chance of playing for their first team. These clubs stockpile these young lads they develop them through their schemes/academies, they get to 22/23 are sub for their reserves and end up on loan here or anywhere else. They play 5/6 games do pretty well, go back to their clubs, then go on loan again, and again and invariably sign for a Champ or League 1 club for £200k, where they rarely ever stand out. They don't have any experience even at 22/23 years of age, they haven't played any football, their careers have gone nowhere they become journeymen at 23 years of age having played 3 games here and 4 games there for a host of different clubs.
The worst bit about it is no one benefits from it apart from the Premier League club (shock horror), this is why there is no money at our elvel of football anymore forget ITV Digital and all that crap and tough times across the world etc etc, this would help solve a lot of issues in Leagues 1 and 2. The players career hasn't gone anywhere, the little clubs like us borrowing these players that should have been ours from an early age in the first place get a player for 5 games and nothing else, the champ/league 1 club that should be buying a better more experienced 22 year old from us for £200k with a sell on are now getting an average, naieve unfinished product from a Prem club on higher wages, they have to do more developing at a higher cost to them. The PRemier LEague club is the one who benefits. Instead of letting the youngster go through the process and end up paying 2 clubs the money they deserve they just nab him as a 12 year old, who cares if he makes it and we'll sell him for £200k.
the transfer window has a lot to blame for this and the amount of loans used across the board, the fact that clubs like us can't buy and more importantly sell all year round makes clubs stockpile players. you see Championship and lower end Premier League squads 35-40 players deep 'just in case' of injuries. You then end up with 2 squads worth of players sat around doing nothing every Saturday so they go out on loan to clubs like us who can't afford a bigger squad anymore because we can't afford to sell our best players during the season if we got in financial trouble and the whole sorry episode goes round and round in circles.
Finally you get clubs abusing the system, Watford a case in point this year have found a loophole in the rules and are playing a team full of loan players their club could never afford to buy. They are cheating in my eyes. They are giving that club a false represenation on where they are as a team and what they can afford to put out as a side. They aren't the first and won't be the last, Hereford did it a few years ago and there are clubs in the league this year who have excessively used the loan market to compensate the short comings in their squad. If it's there why wouldn't we use it? Hard to argue that, the problem is it shouldn't be there to use in the first place. All loans should be emergency and their needs to be more regulation in youth development to stop youth players being poached by clubs. also scrap the transfer window, if anything just to stop Jim White and Sky Sports twice a year would be ample reason but mainly for the reasons listed above.
The loan system truly is one of the worst things about football today.
When I first started watching football (wasn't that long ago) loans were used but they genuinely were 'emergency loans' unlike the current meaning of this term which is basically extra loans. The only time you'd see a loan player at your club was if all of your goalies were injured, or if both your left backs were injured etc etc, teams never carried ridiculously huge squads then, 18 first team pro's probably. Changing from 3 to 5 and then to 7 subs obviously makes that a harder prospect but if you had an injury someone filled in, now as soon as someone gets a knock you have to get a loan player in.
I've ranted about the loan system before, simply because it gets abused and it doesn't benefit football END OF. A young player at 12/13 coming through the ranks at Torquay United should be coached and encouraged to learn his trade here. He should then work through the YTS scheme, Reserves, into the first team, do well in the first team get his games help the club that has helped him, then get sold for £xamount to a bigger club with a sell on, do well there move on to a Premier League club then the Premier League club gets the finished article, he's worked his way up and the 2 clubs previously both get the money they deserve for improving said player and those smaller clubs can then survive and try and bring more through. That's the way it should work. He should only then go out on loan if he isn't involved at the Premier League club then for whatever reason.
The problem I and football should have is this doesn't happen, you see young lads like John Bostock at Palace and I'm sure there are tons of 11/12 year olds around the country that are being taken away from their local clubs at no age, signing for Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs etc etc, where they have next to no chance of playing for their first team. These clubs stockpile these young lads they develop them through their schemes/academies, they get to 22/23 are sub for their reserves and end up on loan here or anywhere else. They play 5/6 games do pretty well, go back to their clubs, then go on loan again, and again and invariably sign for a Champ or League 1 club for £200k, where they rarely ever stand out. They don't have any experience even at 22/23 years of age, they haven't played any football, their careers have gone nowhere they become journeymen at 23 years of age having played 3 games here and 4 games there for a host of different clubs.
The worst bit about it is no one benefits from it apart from the Premier League club (shock horror), this is why there is no money at our elvel of football anymore forget ITV Digital and all that crap and tough times across the world etc etc, this would help solve a lot of issues in Leagues 1 and 2. The players career hasn't gone anywhere, the little clubs like us borrowing these players that should have been ours from an early age in the first place get a player for 5 games and nothing else, the champ/league 1 club that should be buying a better more experienced 22 year old from us for £200k with a sell on are now getting an average, naieve unfinished product from a Prem club on higher wages, they have to do more developing at a higher cost to them. The PRemier LEague club is the one who benefits. Instead of letting the youngster go through the process and end up paying 2 clubs the money they deserve they just nab him as a 12 year old, who cares if he makes it and we'll sell him for £200k.
the transfer window has a lot to blame for this and the amount of loans used across the board, the fact that clubs like us can't buy and more importantly sell all year round makes clubs stockpile players. you see Championship and lower end Premier League squads 35-40 players deep 'just in case' of injuries. You then end up with 2 squads worth of players sat around doing nothing every Saturday so they go out on loan to clubs like us who can't afford a bigger squad anymore because we can't afford to sell our best players during the season if we got in financial trouble and the whole sorry episode goes round and round in circles.
Finally you get clubs abusing the system, Watford a case in point this year have found a loophole in the rules and are playing a team full of loan players their club could never afford to buy. They are cheating in my eyes. They are giving that club a false represenation on where they are as a team and what they can afford to put out as a side. They aren't the first and won't be the last, Hereford did it a few years ago and there are clubs in the league this year who have excessively used the loan market to compensate the short comings in their squad. If it's there why wouldn't we use it? Hard to argue that, the problem is it shouldn't be there to use in the first place. All loans should be emergency and their needs to be more regulation in youth development to stop youth players being poached by clubs. also scrap the transfer window, if anything just to stop Jim White and Sky Sports twice a year would be ample reason but mainly for the reasons listed above.
The loan system truly is one of the worst things about football today.
Well said Royal, Not much to add really, I think you've hit the nail on head.
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chunkygull
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love the post royalgull. well thought out and spot on. 
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