Maggie Thatcher

[usagullmichigan]

Matt, you say you weren't about in 1979. Well, I was around, from the sixties onwards, and I can tell you now that things were generally great in the seventies. Of course there were issues then, there always are, issues come and go. Some problems are solved and, in the solving, new ones are created. And in so many other ways things are as bad now, if not worse, than they were in the seventies, many a result of Thatcher's legacy.

I don't know where you got your information from; the picture you paint of the seventies is so false, it seems you have been taken in by propaganda and a revised version of history, much in the way that many people have been taken in by Israel's version its history (as opposed to the Palestinians' version) or feminism's version of history (as opposed to the reality), as if we were living in hell before Thatcher and she was the nation's saviour who ushered in a new golden age. Utter crap!!

If I had the time I could offer a rebuttal in detail of your points, but even then, like Dave, I probably couldn't be bothered. I must be getting old!

Suffice it to say, as just one example, that black people did indeed have the vote back in the seventies, in fact since the population generally got the vote!

A great stateswoman and leader of the whole nation Thatcher was not. She was just another partisan politician, discriminatory, dictatorial and deluded. RIP..!!

Fact is she was voted in and stayed for 11 years so she must have been doing something right.

[Scott Brehaut]

Everybody should read this. Brilliant article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22076886

[SuperNickyWroe]

yeah, a good read.
summed up by this;
"If she had fallen under a bus in 1978, would Britain today be so different? Her champions and her critics would answer with a firm yes. But I doubt it."

im with dominic on this one.

[Colorado Gull]

The amount of abuse that Maggie is getting now is a disgrace and people need to show some respect to the poor lady who died yesterday. Of course, I tweeted this and some moronic socialist replied to me saying I should 'f**k off' and it was 'their day'. What is he on about?

I'm 16 so I have no idea what it was like under Thatcher as PM, but I'm very into politics (as you may know already somehow) and I have knowledge of the Thatcher era. In a nut shell, our country was a laughing stock to the whole of Europe. She was the one who decided to stand up for our country and getting people to take care of themselves. What's wrong with that?

The poll tax(?). For example, an old lady uses the NHS, the roads, the bins, the public toilets etc and she pays for that through her tax. Down the road from the OAP who is most probably on a pension, lives a mother, father and two kids who pay the same amount of tax? So, what Margaret Thatcher did, was make sure that everyone paid their fair share of poll tax as they are all using it (the NHS, roads etc). How is it fair that the old lady is paying the exact same amount of tax as the family down the road? Maggie decided to change that policy, what's wrong with that?

The mines. Now, I'm not going to try and sound all knowledgable about this point because I don't know all of it. From what I understand, is that the mining industry was losing money and was depleting. Of course it's never nice to see a community die, but surely Maggie had to shut down the mines, or this country would be in bankruptcy? What she also did very cleverly, was stock up on coal around? Is this correct?

The Falkland Islands. Their British and that's it. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely NO to the Euro. What's wrong with that?

If I'm being honest, socialism is never the answer and it's always the socialists that slate Thatcher and it seems OTT a lot of the time. It always seems very quiet from the left side of the spectrum when the names 'Blair' and 'Brown' come into perspective. The same guy who tweeted me, is complaining that it will cost £8 million for her state funeral next Wednesday. I'm presume he doesn't mind about the other spending of our country then? Anyway, that's another story.

R.I.P Maggie

[AustrianAndyGull]

I don't know much about it either Danny as i was just a kid but i lived in a tight knit mining community with my parents and although the points you raised might be fair ones, i don't know but all i know is the misery, pain, desolation and death that woman caused to these areas and the people who lived and worked in them. Also, whose fault was it who just left entire communities to fend for themselves with no help? Of course eventually it is going to manifest in crime and gradually these old mining villages ( i go and visit people i know in them in Doncaster and Rotherham regularly ) become crime blackspots and sink estates over the course of a few decades. I'm not saying this was Maggies fault but it was someones who thought they would make life changing decisions on behalf of thousands of people without thinking through the consequences and effects these decisions would cause.

[ferrarilover]

Conservatism and Socialism are essentially exactly the same thing with the notable exception that Socialists want to drag everyone down to the lowest rung of the ladder to achieve equality and Conservatives want to drag everyone up to the top rung of the ladder for the same purpose.

The sick, lame and lazy dislike Conservatism because it requires hard work and effort but results in an outcome in which they are not interested, social betterment.
The hard working, educated and willing dislike Socialism because it rewards fecklessness and results in an outcome in which they are not interested, social levelling to the lowest common denominator.

I am told there are two levels of GCE these days, upper and lower. The upper tier is a tougher exam, but allows students to achieve the A* grade. The lower tier is an easier exam, but the top grade is limited to a C.
Conservatism is the upper tier, where the brightest, hardest working are rewarded with excellent grades and much personal wealth. Socialism is the lower tier, where no matter how bright and hard-working you are, you'll only ever scrape by.

I know the society of which I would rather be a part...

Matt.

[Colorado Gull]

A very nice post Matt, may I ask who you support?

[ferrarilover]

A very nice post Matt, may I ask who you support?

I voted for the blue lot at the last GE having been a Lib-Dem/Conservative floater since I was able to vote. I did once vote for an independent in a local council election, but that was only because I'd met him and he seemed like such a nice man.
I won't strike down the idea of ever voting for Labour, because that would make my opinion invalid, but it would take one almighty turn around for my tick to be going in the red box on the left.

Matt.

[Colorado Gull]

Fair enough Matt. Trying not to go too off topic, but UKIP not interest you?

[ferrarilover]

Fair enough Matt. Trying not to go too off topic, but UKIP not interest you?

Nah, I prefer to keep my racism both open and jovial. Rather than the closet, snide and far, far too genuine racism preferred by our more militant Eurosceptics. Plus, I've studied enough immigration law to nkow that the situation isn't anywhere near as serious as is made out and that, given our present levels of migration, even if Romania and others do suddenly send millions of entrants here (which they won't) we'll be no worse off for it. Plus, we've done a perfectly decent job of not getting embroiled in the Euro (which is a catastrophe) and, thanks to Maggie, ironically, we're entitled to a sizable ECB rebate every year.

Matt.

[Colorado Gull]

This is where our opinions differ :no:

[SuperNickyWroe]

The amount of abuse that Maggie is getting now is a disgrace and people need to show some respect to the poor lady who died yesterday. Of course, I tweeted this and some moronic socialist replied to me saying I should 'f**k off' and it was 'their day'. What is he on about?

I'm 16 so I have no idea what it was like under Thatcher as PM, but I'm very into politics (as you may know already somehow) and I have knowledge of the Thatcher era. In a nut shell, our country was a laughing stock to the whole of Europe. She was the one who decided to stand up for our country and getting people to take care of themselves. What's wrong with that?

The poll tax(?). For example, an old lady uses the NHS, the roads, the bins, the public toilets etc and she pays for that through her tax. Down the road from the OAP who is most probably on a pension, lives a mother, father and two kids who pay the same amount of tax? So, what Margaret Thatcher did, was make sure that everyone paid their fair share of poll tax as they are all using it (the NHS, roads etc). How is it fair that the old lady is paying the exact same amount of tax as the family down the road? Maggie decided to change that policy, what's wrong with that?

The mines. Now, I'm not going to try and sound all knowledgable about this point because I don't know all of it. From what I understand, is that the mining industry was losing money and was depleting. Of course it's never nice to see a community die, but surely Maggie had to shut down the mines, or this country would be in bankruptcy? What she also did very cleverly, was stock up on coal around? Is this correct?

The Falkland Islands. Their British and that's it. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely NO to the Euro. What's wrong with that?

If I'm being honest, socialism is never the answer and it's always the socialists that slate Thatcher and it seems OTT a lot of the time. It always seems very quiet from the left side of the spectrum when the names 'Blair' and 'Brown' come into perspective. The same guy who tweeted me, is complaining that it will cost £8 million for her state funeral next Wednesday. I'm presume he doesn't mind about the other spending of our country then? Anyway, that's another story.

R.I.P Maggie

ok danny.

poll tax - everyone hated the poll tax. in principle a sort of good idea. ok, say your mum & dad paid £1000 per yr for their council services for their house. then all of a sudden they have to pay an individual cost. sounds ok but 80% of the population were paying more for exactly the same number of services as before.

mines - now, ive never been a miner. but have you seen the (fine) flim brassed off?
filmed about 4 miles from where i live. an area called grimethorpe say the size of churston, reliant on the mine for the local businesses. a profitable mine as well. shut down less than 1yr after the miners strike. result? grimethorpe falls by the wayside and turns into beirut. and thats the case all over yorkshire, nottinghamshire, durham. pits closed. villiages lost.

hope that fills it in a little bit and gives you a flavour of the feeling of the departed lady up north.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Grimethorpe is nice Chris

I delivered some fence panels there when i worked at B&Q and it's worse than Beirut. That was just this blokes house!! F*ck knows what he wanted fence panels for! I couldn't even find his f*cking garden through the undergrowth and discarded bikes!

[ferrarilover]

This is where our opinions differ :no:

Immigration?

[ferrarilover]

Supes, the mine thing grips my shit. Where's the Blitz spirit of keep calm and carry on? If the mine shuts, then the locals shall have to occupy themselves with something else. London in 1989 was built entirely on banking and high finance. When the crash came and all the red braces and Porsche 911 brigade found themselves jobless, they didn't turn to crack cocaine and prostitution. London didn't become Baghdad, they simple picked themselves up, dusted themselves down and redoubled their efforts in another field. The north, despite being grim, is a perfectly viable place but for the sake of a little will to work. So the mines have closed, that was 40 years ago, are you seriously telling me that the opportunity for these places to recover has never presented itself? What was going to happen the day the mine ran out of coal or ore or whatever it was that was being mined? On the Fluffy Thread, Andy has suggested that he is inspired by disabled people, people who lose a limb but continue to live normal lives. I suggest the north takes a long look at the attitude displayed by the people Andy describes and starts applying it to themselves. It IS possible to graft (there's a northern phrase) your way out of trouble. This is a football forum, we have all seen Stoke City, no real talent, but a hell of a work rate, and that is what hard work and application, even in the absence of skill, can achieve.

Matt.