).Very clever man though, very clever man.
Torquay United v Bradford City - 1/4/13
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AustrianAndyGull
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To be honest, looking at it would be the best option for me as if i tried to read it i'd be totally lost ( in space ).
Very clever man though, very clever man.
).Very clever man though, very clever man.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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wivelgull
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Cold. Miserable. Fed up. Unhappy. Freezing. Depressed.
The game was so bad that the crowd (pop. side - NOT the Spottymob) were laughing at Torquay's players; when it gets that bad you know everything's finished.
The bottom line is that the players aren't good enough.
Why on earth didn't we get more players in?
Cold. Bitter wind. A terrible game. Entertainment value zero. Nothing has changed in years and years and years.
Freezing. Miserable. Never again.
The game was so bad that the crowd (pop. side - NOT the Spottymob) were laughing at Torquay's players; when it gets that bad you know everything's finished.
The bottom line is that the players aren't good enough.
Why on earth didn't we get more players in?
Cold. Bitter wind. A terrible game. Entertainment value zero. Nothing has changed in years and years and years.
Freezing. Miserable. Never again.
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ferrarilover
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I am fully aware of who Chris is, how big his brain must be and what not, but here, he is wrong.
We seem, as a nation, over the last few years, to have forgotten just what racism (and other "offensive" behaviour) really is. We have become over-sanitised and over-sensitive to anything, no matter how remote, which may be deemed as offensive.
What this has lead us to is a society where a police officer sues a garage owner for her own clumsiness and where the singing of the National Anthem is deemed racist.
Racism, for those who have forgotten, is the act of treating those of a different or minority race less favourably because, and only because, of the colour of their skin.
Imagine you own Boots and Laces. Now, if an Asian looking chap walks in and you call him a p*** c*** and proceed to throw him out, that is racist. If, on the other hand, while he happens to be in there, one of the lads puts 'Vindaloo' on the jukebox, that is not racist.
Making mention of someone's race is not racist. You see two blokes stood 20 yards away and you want to identify which one is Steve and which one is Simon and Steve happens to be black, there's bugger all wrong with saying, "Steve is the black fella".
Not a terribly long time ago, we had people on here suggesting that it was perfectly acceptable to spend an hour and a half singing about a Sheffield United player being a rapist. We were told, loudly and often, that anyone who was offended by the chanting should 'piss off to the opera'. Apparently, that is acceptable, to accuse a bloke of committing just about the worst crime imaginable upon another person, but to make reference, even passing, veiled, indirect and inoffensive to someone else's colour is not? What sort of standards are these?
I lament the passing of Love Thy Neighbour, where 'white honkie' and 'coon' were commonly bandied about in exactly the sort of manner in which they were intended. I am sure that I am in the minority in wanting society to go back quite that far, but then, I am sure that I am not in the minority in believing traditional societal values to have been eroded to the point of farce.
The world has gone soft, it is time for this sort of limp wristedness to be halted forever. The National Anthem is NOT offensive. If some supporters from Bradford had been, say, Bangladeshi, would we be here now bleating and playing the race card had they chosen to sing the Bangladeshi National Anthem? No, of course we wouldn't.
The ultimate irony here, is, of course, that despite being Asian coloured, every single one of the Bradford fans will have been English. We were singing THEIR Anthem.
Ask yourselves this, why yesterday? Why, when in over 100 years at Plainmoor and following the visit of 103,819* non-white supporters, players and staff we have never had a problem, do we suddenly have a branch of the EDL standing on the Pop? The answer is, of course, that we don't. If, and it's a big if, the Anthem was sung as a jibe to the visiting supporters, let them tell us how they feel about it. Let them come on here and tell us how offended they are by the singing of THEIR Anthem. Let them go to the police and report a hate crime and take the club and individual supporters to Court. Let them decide what is racist and what is not rather then pre-emptively jumping the gun and telling other people how they feel. That's like watching a video of someone being punched and then trying to tell them how much it hurt.
In much the same way as singing about Cheltenham fans all being incestuous, if the Bradford fans are so offended, they have the option to retaliate with chants of their own. I didn't hear a peep out of them all afternoon.
Presently, there is a repeal to Section 5 of the Public Order Act being sent through the official Parliamentary channels. This repeal will remove the word 'insulting' from s5 and will, for the first time, allow people to insult each other freely without fear of arrest and prosecution. This is the greatest advancement in English law this decade. It finally, along with the repeal of the various libel offences, drags this particular element of law into the 21st Century, where people are able to insult and be insulted like the adults that they are supposed to be, rather than having the hand of the State telling us what is and what is not offensive.
Have a look at their various forum (fora?) I'm offering 50p to anyone who can find any mention of racism at yesterday's match.
Matt.
*I have made up these numbers, but the actual figures are entirely irrelevant.
We seem, as a nation, over the last few years, to have forgotten just what racism (and other "offensive" behaviour) really is. We have become over-sanitised and over-sensitive to anything, no matter how remote, which may be deemed as offensive.
What this has lead us to is a society where a police officer sues a garage owner for her own clumsiness and where the singing of the National Anthem is deemed racist.
Racism, for those who have forgotten, is the act of treating those of a different or minority race less favourably because, and only because, of the colour of their skin.
Imagine you own Boots and Laces. Now, if an Asian looking chap walks in and you call him a p*** c*** and proceed to throw him out, that is racist. If, on the other hand, while he happens to be in there, one of the lads puts 'Vindaloo' on the jukebox, that is not racist.
Making mention of someone's race is not racist. You see two blokes stood 20 yards away and you want to identify which one is Steve and which one is Simon and Steve happens to be black, there's bugger all wrong with saying, "Steve is the black fella".
Not a terribly long time ago, we had people on here suggesting that it was perfectly acceptable to spend an hour and a half singing about a Sheffield United player being a rapist. We were told, loudly and often, that anyone who was offended by the chanting should 'piss off to the opera'. Apparently, that is acceptable, to accuse a bloke of committing just about the worst crime imaginable upon another person, but to make reference, even passing, veiled, indirect and inoffensive to someone else's colour is not? What sort of standards are these?
I lament the passing of Love Thy Neighbour, where 'white honkie' and 'coon' were commonly bandied about in exactly the sort of manner in which they were intended. I am sure that I am in the minority in wanting society to go back quite that far, but then, I am sure that I am not in the minority in believing traditional societal values to have been eroded to the point of farce.
The world has gone soft, it is time for this sort of limp wristedness to be halted forever. The National Anthem is NOT offensive. If some supporters from Bradford had been, say, Bangladeshi, would we be here now bleating and playing the race card had they chosen to sing the Bangladeshi National Anthem? No, of course we wouldn't.
The ultimate irony here, is, of course, that despite being Asian coloured, every single one of the Bradford fans will have been English. We were singing THEIR Anthem.
Ask yourselves this, why yesterday? Why, when in over 100 years at Plainmoor and following the visit of 103,819* non-white supporters, players and staff we have never had a problem, do we suddenly have a branch of the EDL standing on the Pop? The answer is, of course, that we don't. If, and it's a big if, the Anthem was sung as a jibe to the visiting supporters, let them tell us how they feel about it. Let them come on here and tell us how offended they are by the singing of THEIR Anthem. Let them go to the police and report a hate crime and take the club and individual supporters to Court. Let them decide what is racist and what is not rather then pre-emptively jumping the gun and telling other people how they feel. That's like watching a video of someone being punched and then trying to tell them how much it hurt.
In much the same way as singing about Cheltenham fans all being incestuous, if the Bradford fans are so offended, they have the option to retaliate with chants of their own. I didn't hear a peep out of them all afternoon.
Presently, there is a repeal to Section 5 of the Public Order Act being sent through the official Parliamentary channels. This repeal will remove the word 'insulting' from s5 and will, for the first time, allow people to insult each other freely without fear of arrest and prosecution. This is the greatest advancement in English law this decade. It finally, along with the repeal of the various libel offences, drags this particular element of law into the 21st Century, where people are able to insult and be insulted like the adults that they are supposed to be, rather than having the hand of the State telling us what is and what is not offensive.
Have a look at their various forum (fora?) I'm offering 50p to anyone who can find any mention of racism at yesterday's match.
Matt.
*I have made up these numbers, but the actual figures are entirely irrelevant.
J5 said, "ferrarilover is 100% correct"
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ferrarilover
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On the subject of the match, we lost for the want of a teaspoon of effort. Bradford were fitter, sharper and quicker than us in every department. We looked tired, slow, passive. I'm rather hoping that we were simply suffering from tired legs and the cold (I know it was the same for both teams, but maybe they just dealt with it better than we did). I still don't think we will go down. Under Knill, that represents a bad day at the office rather than the norm, and I am confident that he will get us playing against Gills and, more crucially, Barnet. I expect a narrow loss at Gillingham, probably very similar to the Northampton game where we play well and defend resolutely, but ultimately get undone by a club with a damn sight more money than us (although that's our own fault, they got for Gazzanega 10x what we got for Bobby. That's like getting for your dingy one bed in Hele 10x what you get for Blenheim Palace).
Matt.
Matt.
J5 said, "ferrarilover is 100% correct"
Wivelgull got it dead right. After travelling up to Northampton on Friday and down to the game yesterday I have seriously had enough.
Been hoping against hope that we would get out of this mess but we are not going to.
As Wivelgull said the players are not good enough - thats the bottom line.
The crowd of 2500 on a bank holiday for an important game was nothing short of pathetic really.
That sort of sums it up really - noone is really interested - noone gives a shit and the crowd quite frankly yesterday made as much noise as if they were at a funeral.
Some of our players are not actually bothered if we go down or not.
I can scarcely reemember seeing a more abject performance than the one yesterday.
We have gone from a play off team last year to no hopers this time around. We got nigh on half a million in transfer fees at the end of last season and invested bugger all in the playing side.
We have a nice new stand and a shiny new scoreboard but we have not got a football team. We are worse than crap teams like Barnet and Accrington.
Next year we will be playing park teams.
I am pissed off with shelling out money to watch muppets who don't want to be here.
This ludicrous racist nonsense is even worse.
Been hoping against hope that we would get out of this mess but we are not going to.
As Wivelgull said the players are not good enough - thats the bottom line.
The crowd of 2500 on a bank holiday for an important game was nothing short of pathetic really.
That sort of sums it up really - noone is really interested - noone gives a shit and the crowd quite frankly yesterday made as much noise as if they were at a funeral.
Some of our players are not actually bothered if we go down or not.
I can scarcely reemember seeing a more abject performance than the one yesterday.
We have gone from a play off team last year to no hopers this time around. We got nigh on half a million in transfer fees at the end of last season and invested bugger all in the playing side.
We have a nice new stand and a shiny new scoreboard but we have not got a football team. We are worse than crap teams like Barnet and Accrington.
Next year we will be playing park teams.
I am pissed off with shelling out money to watch muppets who don't want to be here.
This ludicrous racist nonsense is even worse.
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wivelgull
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Concerning the scoreboard: what value does it have for the fans? Why does it show hardly anything but adverts and the current score (which we know anyway)? Give us some information, please! Half-time scores for example. There was more information when, in the 1950s and 60s the old bloke used to go the Babbacombe end with metal numbers and slot them into the A/B, C/D plates etc. so that we would know what the half-time scores were. O.k, I know the scores are read out over the (often barely audible) tannoy and the same commentator informs us of the teams beforehand - but surely the scoreboard (how much did it cost?) is worth something more than continuous adverts - and dear God! Aren't we all tired of these. Please, please, stop the useless adverts for things nobody wants and give us some football info!
However, all this is theoretical for me, as I shan't be going anyway near Plainmoor for some time after Saturday's end of the pier performance.
However, all this is theoretical for me, as I shan't be going anyway near Plainmoor for some time after Saturday's end of the pier performance.
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gullintwoplaces
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I have to say that the amount of liberal hand wringing and chest beating in some of the posts above makes me very sad. The best post on this in my view is from Ferrarilover, thank you Matt for returning some sanity to this discussion. To accuse the singers of "racism" is quite daft, insensitivity yes, lack of judgment yes but "racism"? Bloody ridiculous. And to claim that Torquay could be subjected to an FA inquiry into fans singing the National Anthem is in the realms of fairyland.
Please don't let this forum turn into a witch-hunt for the perpetrators of alleged "isms", I've seen enough of that in the past few years of my working life. The whole point is that a few daft fans were possibly having a bit of a lame and misdirected pop at a section of the Bradford population who largely don't even support their local team and probably weren't at Plainmoor (please don't call them a "community", my god that "community" word is overused these days, and I say this as a member of the old fart community). Whoever reported the singing to the police needs therapy, who on earth did these singers offend? Yes, of course the singers would done far better to support the team, and should be encouraged by other fans to do this, but to set the police onto them? Guardianista madness.
What matters is not the liberal soap box, but our team and their likelihood of relegation. I'd like to think that getting behind the team will help in our last four games, but I am beginning to lose any hope now. I wish that Plainmoor could be turned into an intimidating place like Sixfields, where the Cobblers fans are on the ref's back from the off, making refs afraid of giving decisions against Northampton and giving the home team a real advantage. I would have no problem at all in Gulls fans getting behind our team AND giving the opposing side + ref a constant barrage, making Plainmoor a place that away teams don't want to come to. Perhaps this might happen in the Barnet game?
Please don't let this forum turn into a witch-hunt for the perpetrators of alleged "isms", I've seen enough of that in the past few years of my working life. The whole point is that a few daft fans were possibly having a bit of a lame and misdirected pop at a section of the Bradford population who largely don't even support their local team and probably weren't at Plainmoor (please don't call them a "community", my god that "community" word is overused these days, and I say this as a member of the old fart community). Whoever reported the singing to the police needs therapy, who on earth did these singers offend? Yes, of course the singers would done far better to support the team, and should be encouraged by other fans to do this, but to set the police onto them? Guardianista madness.
What matters is not the liberal soap box, but our team and their likelihood of relegation. I'd like to think that getting behind the team will help in our last four games, but I am beginning to lose any hope now. I wish that Plainmoor could be turned into an intimidating place like Sixfields, where the Cobblers fans are on the ref's back from the off, making refs afraid of giving decisions against Northampton and giving the home team a real advantage. I would have no problem at all in Gulls fans getting behind our team AND giving the opposing side + ref a constant barrage, making Plainmoor a place that away teams don't want to come to. Perhaps this might happen in the Barnet game?
Just cannot fathom our percieved lack of effort yesterday. The conditions were absolutely terrible. DId our friday night game make a difference? - possibly it did. The players in that game looked dejected at the final whistle after putting in a decent peformance.
Comparing Benyon in the two easter games was interesting - he was excellent at Northampton but didn't have the same energy levels yesterday. Maybe that is understandable - getting back to Torquay in the middle of the night on Saturday morning, maybe the recovery time was just not there.
I hope that Knill makes a couple of changes for the Gillingham game - I don't think he utilised the squad well enough yesterday with the second game in three days.
I would like to see Leadbitter replace Oastler who has continued to struggle. Leadbitter is quick and better going forward. Downes must replace Macdonald, and I would abandon playing Jarvis out wide.
I would like to see us play this team:
Poke
Leadbitter-Saah-Downes-Cruise
Bodin-Labadie-Mansell-Chappell
Howe-Benyon
I would have Thompson/Macklin/Jarvis/Yeoman amonst the subs.
There is just no point in going to Gillingham,defending and losing one nil. We need wide players on the flanks, with two quick full backs.
If we are going down at least lets try to go down fighting.
Comparing Benyon in the two easter games was interesting - he was excellent at Northampton but didn't have the same energy levels yesterday. Maybe that is understandable - getting back to Torquay in the middle of the night on Saturday morning, maybe the recovery time was just not there.
I hope that Knill makes a couple of changes for the Gillingham game - I don't think he utilised the squad well enough yesterday with the second game in three days.
I would like to see Leadbitter replace Oastler who has continued to struggle. Leadbitter is quick and better going forward. Downes must replace Macdonald, and I would abandon playing Jarvis out wide.
I would like to see us play this team:
Poke
Leadbitter-Saah-Downes-Cruise
Bodin-Labadie-Mansell-Chappell
Howe-Benyon
I would have Thompson/Macklin/Jarvis/Yeoman amonst the subs.
There is just no point in going to Gillingham,defending and losing one nil. We need wide players on the flanks, with two quick full backs.
If we are going down at least lets try to go down fighting.
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chardie
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Should we ban all England flags from the ground in case it offends anyone? Or it appears from some postings someone who wishes to be offended on behalf of someone else who was not offended in the first place?
Should this Smilie be allowed or does it have sinister racist overtones?
Give me strength....
Should this Smilie be allowed or does it have sinister racist overtones?
Give me strength....
TUST No 278
Agree with much of Brucie's posting .... except for the inclusion of Billy Bodin in the team. He was unbelievably poor yesterday - poor ball control, putting team-mates under pressure with suicidal short passes and not challenging for the ball. We're in a dog fight and don't need show ponies as Bodin has been all season. In my opinion, he deserves to be dropped from the squad completely. Does anyone know what has happened to Ian Morris? Before his injury, I thought he was playing okay. I'd certainly have him in the squad ahead of Bodin.
Angus McDonald has got a bright future ahead of him and I'd like to see us sign him at the end of the season if possible. But Aaron Downes for me has been player of the season and we need his experience for these last five vital games - besides which, he's always likely to come up with a goal or two from set pieces. As for yesterday, I think much credit has to given to Bradford - they looked a very good side which maybe made us look worse than we were? Playing with 10 men plus Bodin didn't do anything to help our chances.
Angus McDonald has got a bright future ahead of him and I'd like to see us sign him at the end of the season if possible. But Aaron Downes for me has been player of the season and we need his experience for these last five vital games - besides which, he's always likely to come up with a goal or two from set pieces. As for yesterday, I think much credit has to given to Bradford - they looked a very good side which maybe made us look worse than we were? Playing with 10 men plus Bodin didn't do anything to help our chances.
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AustrianAndyGull
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tomogull wrote:Agree with much of Brucie's posting .... except for the inclusion of Billy Bodin in the team. He was unbelievably poor yesterday - poor ball control, putting team-mates under pressure with suicidal short passes and not challenging for the ball. We're in a dog fight and don't need show ponies as Bodin has been all season. In my opinion, he deserves to be dropped from the squad completely. Does anyone know what has happened to Ian Morris? Before his injury, I thought he was playing okay. I'd certainly have him in the squad ahead of Bodin.
Angus McDonald has got a bright future ahead of him and I'd like to see us sign him at the end of the season if possible. But Aaron Downes for me has been player of the season and we need his experience for these last five vital games - besides which, he's always likely to come up with a goal or two from set pieces. As for yesterday, I think much credit has to given to Bradford - they looked a very good side which maybe made us look worse than we were? Playing with 10 men plus Bodin didn't do anything to help our chances.
I LOVE YOU TOMMOGULL!!
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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AustrianAndyGull
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He won the penalty against Exeter and scored one or two crap goals. If anybody would like to come on tell me what else he has contributed week in week out then i'm all ears. Poke has contributed EVERY week, Saah and Downes have contributed EVERY week ( i forgive Downes the red cards and bad challenges ), Bodin just looks like a lost sheep, he is TOTALLY out of his depth and should be in the BSP at the highest.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Dockers Pal
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Knill has now been in charge for 10 games. He has gained us 9 points. In comparison Ward at Bristol R gained 20 pts in his first 10 games, Sheridan at Argyle gained 13 pts in his first 10, Hill gained 10pts in his first 10 and Scott has gained 10 in his first 8 games. So Knill's performance is the worst. It convinces me that he's not the messiah. Not even average.
The last two games we have failed to match the opposition on shots, corners(nothing new here), or possession. Mitigating factors - not all opposition managers have the know-how of Boothroyd and Parkinson. But I expect a Martin Allen team to be highly competitive.
Howe barely gets mentioned these days on the blogs suggesting he's not influencing the game. Same goes for Bodin. Its a big call to drop them but I'd rather see two high energy guys trying to pull holes in the opposition defence than keep the same strategy so its Benyon and Yeoman for me up front but this will only work if we use proper wing play rather than crossing from the 18 yd apex - will it happen ? - probably not.
The last two games we have failed to match the opposition on shots, corners(nothing new here), or possession. Mitigating factors - not all opposition managers have the know-how of Boothroyd and Parkinson. But I expect a Martin Allen team to be highly competitive.
Howe barely gets mentioned these days on the blogs suggesting he's not influencing the game. Same goes for Bodin. Its a big call to drop them but I'd rather see two high energy guys trying to pull holes in the opposition defence than keep the same strategy so its Benyon and Yeoman for me up front but this will only work if we use proper wing play rather than crossing from the 18 yd apex - will it happen ? - probably not.
I said I would not make any further posts on this subject in public, so thought long and hard about his, however I said my son stands with the group, I believe he was amongst the group confronted by Stargull and may have joined in with chant. So feel it is only right to make one last public post.
For many reasons which I will not bore you with, I did not have the chance to talk it through with my lad untill this morning, after to speaking to him and in the cold light of day I can now see it was meant as some sort of taunt which this lads I think genuniely believed was funny, I can now fully accpet it was not meant to be racist even though it does appear so and would to some.
Gullintwoplaces makes a very good point, it was insensitive, it was poor judgement and my lad now realises that himself, and can not be just waved away as oh it's football, banter etc.
The main I was trying to get across was, how does singing good save the queen and England, England help our own team, and incase it's been missed we are in a relegation scrap here.
And in response to some posts made today, I can tell you hearing those chants did annoy me. I am not in any way a Liberal hand ringer actuall quite the opposite. Also it is not about waving England flags either. As I wear my England shirt with pride, I fly my 2 England flags from my house during W/C's and Euro's aswell as from my van.
What is about is common decency. There are many English born asian and black football fans who go and support their clubs up and down the country, there many English born asain/ black football fans who also wear their England shirts with pride and fly their England flags, what right does anyone have to sing god save the queen, or England, England at them as if they some how do not belong here.
And thats the point missed, it was not racist I see that now, however also it was not right. To repeat this is my last public post on this, although I am a perfectly resonable person and I am quite happy if anyone wants to respond to this, to disscuss it further via PM .
For many reasons which I will not bore you with, I did not have the chance to talk it through with my lad untill this morning, after to speaking to him and in the cold light of day I can now see it was meant as some sort of taunt which this lads I think genuniely believed was funny, I can now fully accpet it was not meant to be racist even though it does appear so and would to some.
Gullintwoplaces makes a very good point, it was insensitive, it was poor judgement and my lad now realises that himself, and can not be just waved away as oh it's football, banter etc.
The main I was trying to get across was, how does singing good save the queen and England, England help our own team, and incase it's been missed we are in a relegation scrap here.
And in response to some posts made today, I can tell you hearing those chants did annoy me. I am not in any way a Liberal hand ringer actuall quite the opposite. Also it is not about waving England flags either. As I wear my England shirt with pride, I fly my 2 England flags from my house during W/C's and Euro's aswell as from my van.
What is about is common decency. There are many English born asian and black football fans who go and support their clubs up and down the country, there many English born asain/ black football fans who also wear their England shirts with pride and fly their England flags, what right does anyone have to sing god save the queen, or England, England at them as if they some how do not belong here.
And thats the point missed, it was not racist I see that now, however also it was not right. To repeat this is my last public post on this, although I am a perfectly resonable person and I am quite happy if anyone wants to respond to this, to disscuss it further via PM .
Formerly known as forevertufc
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chunkygull
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bit strange reading about racism on our forum. it is unusual. not unheard of in our history as with any club in the land but definitely unusual.
wasnt there yesterday, but as a few have mentioned was it really racist to sing the england anthem, definitely accept the fact it was a daft thing to do, but conscious racism? i get the reason behind why it was done , although it was very wrong and very foolish.
if someone of an ethnic origin or background from bradford was offended because they feel it was a slight at them, then i could understand the condemnation.
has there been any complaint from bradford?
when we have played wrexham, swansea, cardiff etc, the england chants have rung out and they give back wales songs and bread of heaven etc.
nobody at plainmoor has ever sung sheepshaggers at them then, or indeed even to shrewsbury or hereford?
look up racism or racist in the dictionary.
like others have said we are far too pc these days, too many handwringers and guardianistas.
a lot of caucasian people always seem to be offended or outraged on behalf of people of other ethnic persuasions in these circumstances.
indeed the law has changed in recent times if an offence has occured where a third party feels there has been a racist incident, they can report it to the police, even if the victim hasnt heard anything or was aware of it or if indeed they were bothered.
like the mark clattenburg /john obi mikkel incident. the society of black lawyers made the complaint and indeed they have been involved in other cases similar. is this really the way forward to stamp out racism. this just breeds more hostility surely.their spokesman peter herbert in interviews about the whole thing came accross as militant and antagonistic.
its like councils in recent times refusing to put up christmas trees or decorations or not letting people put england flags up during world cups etc, or people being banned from wearing a cross. all this because it is felt these things would offend people of a different colour, creed, race, culture nationality and religion. total b0ll0cks. this is others being offended on a groups behalf before anything so called offensive has even happened, or indeed if it is offensive at all.. hand wringers, guardianistas, pc brigade.
we wouldnt tell muslims, sikhs, jews or hindus they couldnt wear religious symbols or garments,or that they couldnt put up any types of decor during a religious festival because we were offended by them. would we tell a foreign national to take their flag down.i think not.
are any of those groups or indeed others who may be foreign or have different cultures actually offended by us doing any of the above things. in fact a newspaper survey a few years ago found that a lot were upset and disappointed that councils were taking the no christmas stance and using the bullsh!t "dont want to offend anyone" reason. they dont feel that way!
if somebody uses what is deemed as racist language, or tells or listens to a joke about foreigners or people of other races or creeds, does that make them a racist?
it makes them a d!ckhead, yes, but do they feel hatred towards or want to oppress those of other creeds or colours?
i bet there isnt 1 person on here who hasnt been guilty of so called racism consciously or unconsciously at some point. the jokes or language thing especially.
football fans banter is usually chanting and singing things about differences or things about another set of fans that is unlike theirselves. e.g you dirty northern b*st*rds.
as long as we are not singing and shouting directly about a persons creed, colour or nationality it should be accepted as banter.
many people claim the various alf garnett programmes were racist. so many missed the point that garnett was a caricature and the whole thing was ironic and alf garnett was supposed to look like a complete tw@t and stupid fool.many missed the point. indeed it was only the later series when alf got a black, gay home help that always got the better of him or made him look silly, people realised it and got the point.
as for never seen or heard racism at plainmoor. all football grounds at some time have heard racist language. i have been watching torquay since 1987 and things are most definitely different now, but a few years ago many supporters wouldnt think twice about yelling something at a black footballer. we have come a long way in stamping out some of the vile moronic things we used to see and hear. as we have said a thing like yesterday is rare and is certainly not full blown disgusting racist behaviour.
indeed i have heard racist language and chanting at plainmoor down the years. this was a while ago granted, but i have heard things like black b*****d, c**n, n****r. wrong on so many levels, disgusting and not funny. the ironic and moronic thing is supporters have been stood yelling this at opposition black players while black torquay players are stood there hearing it as well then the next minute the same supporters are cheering on and encouraging the black torquay player.
example 1 - i remember 1 game in particular, i think it was vs orient. there was a black player in the opposition team he had long dreadlocks tied back and every time he got near the ball the pop side were singing what all i can describe as a zulu chant (la la la la la) whilst making a spear throwing motion. torquay had 3 black players playing that day. wonder how they felt?
example 2 - rodney jack, torquays star player at the time, the darling of plainmoor was stood a few yards away from an incident where a black player from the opposition made a bad challenge on a torquay player. an idiot on the pop side shouted out you f***ing black b*****d at the player. rodney looked over, the idiot looked over at him and shouted not you rodney, you're alright. i cannot really describe the look on rodneys face. a mixture of bemusement and anger. a few laughed but it was extremly uncomfortable and embarrassing.
we have come a hell of a long way since days like these. things have most definitely changed for the better. by the sound of it a thing like yesterdays incident was minor in comparison and more a lack of judgement and education.
if i had been at the game anywhere near that yesterday i most certainly would not have approved and i definitely would not have joined in, i more than likely would have thought what a bunch of d!cks, but on the other hand would not be hammering those that did, or call them racist.
wasnt there yesterday, but as a few have mentioned was it really racist to sing the england anthem, definitely accept the fact it was a daft thing to do, but conscious racism? i get the reason behind why it was done , although it was very wrong and very foolish.
if someone of an ethnic origin or background from bradford was offended because they feel it was a slight at them, then i could understand the condemnation.
has there been any complaint from bradford?
when we have played wrexham, swansea, cardiff etc, the england chants have rung out and they give back wales songs and bread of heaven etc.
nobody at plainmoor has ever sung sheepshaggers at them then, or indeed even to shrewsbury or hereford?
look up racism or racist in the dictionary.
like others have said we are far too pc these days, too many handwringers and guardianistas.
a lot of caucasian people always seem to be offended or outraged on behalf of people of other ethnic persuasions in these circumstances.
indeed the law has changed in recent times if an offence has occured where a third party feels there has been a racist incident, they can report it to the police, even if the victim hasnt heard anything or was aware of it or if indeed they were bothered.
like the mark clattenburg /john obi mikkel incident. the society of black lawyers made the complaint and indeed they have been involved in other cases similar. is this really the way forward to stamp out racism. this just breeds more hostility surely.their spokesman peter herbert in interviews about the whole thing came accross as militant and antagonistic.
its like councils in recent times refusing to put up christmas trees or decorations or not letting people put england flags up during world cups etc, or people being banned from wearing a cross. all this because it is felt these things would offend people of a different colour, creed, race, culture nationality and religion. total b0ll0cks. this is others being offended on a groups behalf before anything so called offensive has even happened, or indeed if it is offensive at all.. hand wringers, guardianistas, pc brigade.
we wouldnt tell muslims, sikhs, jews or hindus they couldnt wear religious symbols or garments,or that they couldnt put up any types of decor during a religious festival because we were offended by them. would we tell a foreign national to take their flag down.i think not.
are any of those groups or indeed others who may be foreign or have different cultures actually offended by us doing any of the above things. in fact a newspaper survey a few years ago found that a lot were upset and disappointed that councils were taking the no christmas stance and using the bullsh!t "dont want to offend anyone" reason. they dont feel that way!
if somebody uses what is deemed as racist language, or tells or listens to a joke about foreigners or people of other races or creeds, does that make them a racist?
it makes them a d!ckhead, yes, but do they feel hatred towards or want to oppress those of other creeds or colours?
i bet there isnt 1 person on here who hasnt been guilty of so called racism consciously or unconsciously at some point. the jokes or language thing especially.
football fans banter is usually chanting and singing things about differences or things about another set of fans that is unlike theirselves. e.g you dirty northern b*st*rds.
as long as we are not singing and shouting directly about a persons creed, colour or nationality it should be accepted as banter.
bit before my time but i have seen love thy neighbour and read about it, the whole point and context of this show was irony and the message that the bigoted white bloke always ended up looking like an idiot with egg on his face and the black guy came out on top. yet because of the language, which is realistic for the time it is deemed racist,ferrarilover =
I lament the passing of Love Thy Neighbour, where 'white honkie' and 'coon' were commonly bandied about in exactly the sort of manner in which they were intended. I am sure that I am in the minority in wanting society to go back quite that far, but then, I am sure that I am not in the minority in believing traditional societal values to have been eroded to the point of farce.
many people claim the various alf garnett programmes were racist. so many missed the point that garnett was a caricature and the whole thing was ironic and alf garnett was supposed to look like a complete tw@t and stupid fool.many missed the point. indeed it was only the later series when alf got a black, gay home help that always got the better of him or made him look silly, people realised it and got the point.
as for never seen or heard racism at plainmoor. all football grounds at some time have heard racist language. i have been watching torquay since 1987 and things are most definitely different now, but a few years ago many supporters wouldnt think twice about yelling something at a black footballer. we have come a long way in stamping out some of the vile moronic things we used to see and hear. as we have said a thing like yesterday is rare and is certainly not full blown disgusting racist behaviour.
indeed i have heard racist language and chanting at plainmoor down the years. this was a while ago granted, but i have heard things like black b*****d, c**n, n****r. wrong on so many levels, disgusting and not funny. the ironic and moronic thing is supporters have been stood yelling this at opposition black players while black torquay players are stood there hearing it as well then the next minute the same supporters are cheering on and encouraging the black torquay player.
example 1 - i remember 1 game in particular, i think it was vs orient. there was a black player in the opposition team he had long dreadlocks tied back and every time he got near the ball the pop side were singing what all i can describe as a zulu chant (la la la la la) whilst making a spear throwing motion. torquay had 3 black players playing that day. wonder how they felt?
example 2 - rodney jack, torquays star player at the time, the darling of plainmoor was stood a few yards away from an incident where a black player from the opposition made a bad challenge on a torquay player. an idiot on the pop side shouted out you f***ing black b*****d at the player. rodney looked over, the idiot looked over at him and shouted not you rodney, you're alright. i cannot really describe the look on rodneys face. a mixture of bemusement and anger. a few laughed but it was extremly uncomfortable and embarrassing.
we have come a hell of a long way since days like these. things have most definitely changed for the better. by the sound of it a thing like yesterdays incident was minor in comparison and more a lack of judgement and education.
if i had been at the game anywhere near that yesterday i most certainly would not have approved and i definitely would not have joined in, i more than likely would have thought what a bunch of d!cks, but on the other hand would not be hammering those that did, or call them racist.
You are my torquay, my only torquay, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know, just, how much i love you, so don't take my torquay away.
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
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