Torquay United Fans Forum

I'm delighted that Joss has joined us and all being well he will be pitched straight into the action come 3pm tomorrow and i'm confident he will have a good game and a positive influence on the team both going forward and defending. However, i share your concerns CP about the need for us to score goals which STILL (for whatever reason) hasn't been properly addressed. It looks unlikely that anyone else is going to come in before the Oxford game which we will at best get a draw out of even with the inclusion of Labadie (he isn't superman and anyone who expects us to suddenly start winning because we have signed someone is certifiably insane and that includes Knill ). If nobody comes in on Monday then we go into the Daggers game with the same squad who can't score. Again, a draw at best IMO. Then we go to Southend where WE SIMPLY NEED STRIKING OPTIONS IN TIME FOR THIS GAME TO REMAIN COMPETETIVE.

Even before the Southend game comes round 2 more winnable games will have passed without us winning (IMO) and because we can't score goals and the problem hasn't been solved. I don't know what fingers are in what pies for Knill but the upshot is that if we can't score goals we have no chance of winning football matches and if we don't win many football matches then we will be relegated in 8 weeks time. So i would very much like him to get someone in at some point next week. I understand when people say there is no point in bringing in players who aren't better than what we've got and i totally agree, all it means if that is the case is that we are going down. It's as simple as that. So again, the ball is firmly in Knill's court and i just hope he has managed to identify some players and can get them in next week. I have to trust him and i have to believe in him because i cannot think about failure.

It seems, by his (Alan Knill's) own admission that rather as some of us thought might be the case, our new Manager is far more familiar with Northern based players than Southern, not really surprising given that all of his managerial experience has been in that part of the country(note to Mr Baker!). Having all those northern" contacts" may not unfortunately be of much use in our current predicament!

So, having been knocked back by all these "Northerners" that he knew, it seems that he is now being offered "Southerners" he doesn't know and has never seen play! Fair play to him, he has not panicked and just brought someone in for the sake of it and it makes good sense to go and see some of these players that have been recommended to him, so that he can make his own mind up, which he is apparently planning to do next week.

Personally though, I would have liked to have seen at least another one or two more added this week and the Benyon "situation"'just increases the pressure as it seems by no means certain, due to his ongoing knee problem, that he will even stay beyond the weekend, let alone be fully fit!

I really do like the sound of Labadie and with Downes (hopefully) back it certainly makes the "spine" of our team look a lot more solid, but it is all about goals and we need to find our shooting boots on Saturday and make sure we secure he three points we so desperately need, otherwise the (relative) lack of squad strengthening this week will begin to seem like a huge mistake.

I like the sound of Knill and am encouraged by his approach to things, but he is nearly three weeks into the job now and, despite his undoubted hard work and efforts to bring people in, I still maintain that the "focus" has been a little bit wide of the mark in terms of where the team needed strengthening ( a centre half was the least of our worries and young Angus is an able deputy for Downesy anyway) and the types of players he has been going after ... seemingly northern based, experienced, League 1 types, who surprise, surprise seemingly have no interest in joining a struggling league 2 side in our south western outpost on a short term basis !!! A generalisation, I know, but I suspect it's not too far wide of the mark!

Like I suggested in a previous post, perhaps we should look at how Sheridan (who has admitted how surprised he was at how difficult it has been to bring players in ) has gone about his business at Argyle and how he has recruited from almost exclusively Southern based clubs. I suspect Alan Knill is finally coming around to that way of thinking, but in he meantime another week and another game passes by with just the one addition to show for all his efforts.

If Knill stays beyond the end of this season, I am sure he will have more luck in persuading some of those reluctant "Northerners" that life ain't so bad down here and once they come and have a good look around heck they might actually find life down here ain't so bad after all, but unfortunately :( persuading them to come down now, for even the briefest of stays, just isn't the right time.

I suspect that over the next few weeks I.e up until he loan "window" closes we will now see an influx of largely untried and untested kids coming in from out of the Premiership/Championship Academies, which is probably where the focus should have been from day one. Who knows, there might be a few more experienced pros knocking around locally, who might fancy a few weeks in Devon, but there may not be too many of those around at this stage of the season. The time spent focusing elsewhere will hopefully not have been entirely wasted as it did at least produce Labadie but I think we need to shift direction now to more "realistic" targets and hope that we can uncover some real gems.

I'm surprised we are finding it SO hard to get players in. Perhaps the tight nature of the bottom half of L1 (7pts from 15th to 21st) isn't helping us.

You'd think at this stage of the season, most managers would know who they are retaining and releasing for next season so if they knew they were letting somebody go, they'd allow them to put themselves in the shop window with a spell with us. But with L1 being so tight, perhaps a lot of managers haven't been able to plan for next season and as such don't know quite who is for the chop yet?

What is needed is a complete overhaul in the boardroom - unfortunately this may be too late for this season!!

[quote="CP Gull"]Looking for "experienced" players to bring in is all well and good, but it won't be easy so good luck with that one, Mr Knill! Unfortunately, at this time of year very often clubs are reluctant to let fringe players go out on loan as most clubs will either still harbour hopes of promotion/play offs or are concerned about relegation and so are reluctant to weaken their squads further in case players are needed and to guard against injuries and suspensions in the run in.

Not only that, but experienced players are also more likely to have families to consider and our location is not an attractive one to many for obvious reasons and so persuading these players to join our relegation battle is not that appealing either, particularly when we cannot offer anyone any guarantees (of a contract offer) beyond the end of this season and our interim Manager is only supposedly in situ for the next couple of months or so anyway.

.[/quote]

Well, it seems the luck I wished for, has not come to fruition .... no surprise there then.

Quite simply, for the reasons given above a week ago, I feel we are searching in all the wrong areas ... you would have thought that someone at TUFC might have realised that a bit earlier!

We would all love to see some experienced heads brought in from League 1 (where Alan Knill has been looking it seems), but trying to get that type of player down here in our situation was always going to be a tough ask and in the meantime another week has slipped by without ANY additions, despite all the promises made by Chairman and Manager alike.

It seems he has "missed out" on his first TEN targets and so we can only hope that, by the law of averages, he eventually finds someone who will say YES! But, we cannot afford to waste another week without improving the squad. As each week passes by, we get nearer to the end of the loan "window" and then it will, of course, be too late.

Not sure where the focus has been in terms of bringing players in but not sure we need a centre half now (to cover for Downes) as really the time being taken to bring someone in has seen the need for cover for Downes gradually subside anyway. Hopefully he (Downes) might even have an outside chance for next Saturday, based on the more optimistic injury prognosis when he first became injured anyway! Not only that but young Angus has done ok in his place. The more pressing problem is in creating and scoring goals and I would hope the emphasis in our player search has shifted more to these areas than in defence.

No doubt that Knill has been working hard, but maybe the focus needs to be shifted to REALISTIC targets who hopefully can improve us.

It goes without saying that it doesn't help the morale of the fans when we are constantly being fed stuff, like we have been for months now, about transfer targets and new signings ... from both Manager and Chairman alike ...only to be disappointed when nothing happens.

Good to see us get a point on Saturday, and at least it stops the rot, but how would we all have felt if that late, late "offside" goal had of been given on Saturday, which it seems it should have been. We were probably due a bit of luck, but we need to make sure that with no midweek game every effort is made to strengthen the squad for the run in .... after all it is only what EVERY other team in the bottom TEN have been doing for the last couple of months now ...

It was interesting listening to Argyle Manager John Sheridan on the FL show on Saturday, saying how difficult he had found it bringing players in ... but he still managed to get SEVEN in in FOUR weeks, so Alan Knill has some catching up to do .. maybe we can learn some lessons from their situation though?

Sheridan has found players who are out of work (Charles), out of work AND living locally (Branston) so maybe there are still one or two of those kicking around, rather than relying entirely on the loan market?

He has also had some success with bringing in players who are South West based ... surely got be easier than recruiting say northern based players which Knill may or may not have been looking at. Sheridan has recruited from the likes of Yeovil (Reid) Reading (Ugwu) and Swindon (Cox). Other possible avenues he could explore are TUFC friendly Managers (Warnock?) as Sheridan picked up Banton from Crystal Palace (Holloway) or even players that are familiar with the club/area from past association and realise that a couple of months in Devon ain't so bad really (Murray ex TUFC, from Ipswich). I just think if we pursue a line of enquiry that, for example, concentrates on experienced, League 1, northern based players with no connection to the South West area .... we are destined to fail!!!!!

Not really much to add here.
What I find so frustrating though is that we spent months playing dog shit defensive football and losing games by the odd goal, Knill has come in, changed to a more attacking system and we are still losing games by the odd goal. If this change had been made at Christmas we may have scored a few goals and won a couple of games but now the confidence of the squad is shot to pieces we don't seem capable of winning anything.

I agree that we do need loans in and quick but in the meantime I would like to see Cruise at left back and Craig or Morris in the middle. We went half the season with Oastler at right-back not realising just how good Leadbitter was. We have absolutely nothing to lose so why not give them a go.

Also, what is everyone else's thoughts on the 'new manager feel-good factor'? It seemed to last for 45 minutes before turning to shit again. I was hoping Knill would have given the boys a kick up the arse and dropped a few under performers but apart from the formation nothing seems to have changed.

I'm really finding it hard to be positive here, there is just nothing to pin hope on. Even in the poor times under Buckle there was still an air of excitement around the ground when we got a corner or throw-in knowing that Nicho was going to launch the ball in to the box, even that seems to have gone now.

We've received another £10,000 for Olejnik,now he's made 30 apperances for Posh(£30,000) in total so far.
More money for signings then ?

[quote="Dave_Pougher"]It seems some of our custodians heve been so since Jan.[/quote]


It's the only way we would ever get out of League Two while the Flowerpot Men are in control.

It seems some of our custodians heve been so since Jan.

Please please can we get someone EXTRA in midfield to be available/spare/creator, preferably someone who is comfortable in possession.
What we saw last night was a disfunctional group of players who just were not comfortable on the ball and who failed to produce the basics - ball control, passing, teamwork - and who lacked leadership. In fact Ryan Jarvis looked the only player happy with the ball at his feet.
Ironically, Billy Bodin has discovered some enthousiasm and is now looking like the player we thought we had bought - he found some great wide positions in space but no-one found him, least of all Rene Howe who positively will not pass the ball to Billy because so often this season he never got it back. Yes we need another tall striker because again in the second half we tried to go long, even though we knew from the previous defeats that the long game does not work for us as presently set up.
Our interim manager had the opportunity last night to change things during the match, yet chose to use only one substitute despite the Sunday morning pub team standard of football on offer and even when we were losing made no attempt to refresh the team..... Oh dear oh dear, are we all so resigned to relegation fate already?

:lol:

Thankfully it is just my face though and not my hair. :~D yet! :-/

Stop looking in the mirror then!! ;-)

[quote="yellowsmiffy"]Royal, I also would have liked Logan to add to what we have rather than replace, purely as I feel like we could quite easily change our style of football to suit a couple of big men if we wanted to. It would be nice if the other forward could occasionally win the flick ons for Rene to run on to wouldn't it!? Platt and Akinfenwa are a similar partnership that I like. We have some very decent wide players with good delivery. Especially Stevens, Morris, and Craig. But once again, it's too late to change probably.

However, it seems we are sticking to our guns with our current style of football, and to be quite honest I completely agree with Andy above. He's spot on about a creative player not coming in. Too little too late probably by the time we get someone in, but we have to try. I do wish that our brand of football was more effective, but I really don't think it will be until we have a midfield that can take hold of a game and dictate the tempo of the match as they wish. At least Bodin looks to be more and more dangerous each game, and that could prove to be hugely important.

I'm desperate for some experience in defence to come in. If we could find a 30+ year old defender, who is not playing regularly in League 1, their club may be willing to get them off the wage budget for a couple of months. I agree with CP that the relocation thing can be an issue with families, but we will just have to hope that there's some singleton older pros out there, who need a change of scenery from their[color=#FF0000] current grim northern settings![/quote][/color]

You're not wrong! :lol:

I've only seen one colour for the last 6 months - grey. :(

Which creative midfielder of any quality would be able to slot in to a team with the multitude of issues that we have and make an instant impact? In the timescale we have to identify someone, negotiate, bring them in, get them into the team and start pulling some strings and influencing games i think it is impossible.It is the horse and bolted scenario. Credit to Knill and the board for looking but as CP Gull says, not only are our problems on the pitch going to put off anyone half decent but also the problem of geography. I can't see us having much luck really. I'd like some additions if just to add some more options but are these players going to better than we've got already? We've brought in Benners but it has been a massive failure, what makes the board think any new players will have the desired effect? The addition of loanees should have been addressed professionally before Christmas, now is too late i fear. We probably will have to rely on the players who got us into this to get us out of it and apart from continuing to go to the games to offer support, there isn't a thing more we can do about any of it. That is the most frustrating thing.

Looking for "experienced" players to bring in is all well and good, but it won't be easy so good luck with that one, Mr Knill! Unfortunately, at this time of year very often clubs are reluctant to let fringe players go out on loan as most clubs will either still harbour hopes of promotion/play offs or are concerned about relegation and so are reluctant to weaken their squads further in case players are needed and to guard against injuries and suspensions in the run in.

Not only that, but experienced players are also more likely to have families to consider and our location is not an attractive one to many for obvious reasons and so persuading these players to join our relegation battle is not that appealing either, particularly when we cannot offer anyone any guarantees (of a contract offer) beyond the end of this season and our interim Manager is only supposedly in situ for the next couple of months or so anyway.

Far more likely to attract young, hungry, preferably single, professionals from the Prem/Championship who are champing at the bit to get a shot at first team football having spent a long time waiting for an opportunity to come along. Of course, there is always a risk with young pros and how they will cope coming into a squad that is low on confidence and struggling badly, never mind whether or not they can even hack it in League Two having only experienced a somewhat cosseted existence in the academy system ... but unfortunately beggars can't be choosers.

As a club, we need to be seen to be doing SOMETHING to rectify the situation. Constantly talking about adding to the squad, through interviews given to the local media,pieces on the Official site (on the subject of which how daft was it that just a couple of weeks ago they did a piece with Manse still banging the drum about our play off hopes - thought it was delusional at the time and it's just plain embarrassing now looking back on it) and in Simon Baker's programme notes are not enough! We need action and pretty damn soon!

I could easily produce a list of what our relegation rivals have been doing, in terms of recruitment, to try and get themselves out of this dogfight but let's just give a few examples of what has been happening... Barnet (new Manager) have Edgar Davids and Craig Beattie, Accrington Stanley have James Beattie, AFC Wimbledon have Gary Alexander, Aldershot (new Manager) have Jeff Goulding, Plymouth (new Manager) have young Banton and old Branno, Bristol Rovers have appointed a fine Manager in John Ward and added well to what was already a very decent squad and Ward will make sure they stay out of trouble I'm sure. All of these additions/changes have been made over the last few months. While all we have seen is a new interim Manager, a situation which let's face it was forced upon us rather than one of our own making and a seventh choice striker at a fellow League 2 club being brought in on loan in order to try and salvage our League status!

More needs to be done, less talking, more action please for the sake of our football club.