Applauding Dismal Failure

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Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by jonnyfive » 09 Oct 2012, 20:15

NickGull wrote:It seems that Guy Branston has said his piece on this sort of thing. Possibly of interest to some.
"I'm not about the airy-fairy Olympics [idea of] clapping everyone just for kicking the ball," he added.
"I don't want that. If we're not doing the right thing then make sure you get on at us.
"I love reading about psychology and how it works on players. You get about five to six percent more out of the player if you get on at him.
"Make sure you turn up in force and do that."

See you lot? You mess with me, you mess with the Pickler!

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by AustrianAndyGull » 09 Oct 2012, 14:56

Fair enough Matt. :~D

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by ferrarilover » 09 Oct 2012, 09:34

No, I'm not, but Billy's relative lack of endeavour did not lead to the performance on Saturday, not is it alone sufficient to withhold my support.

Matt.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by Plymouth Gull » 09 Oct 2012, 09:28

It seems that Guy Branston has said his piece on this sort of thing. Possibly of interest to some.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by AustrianAndyGull » 09 Oct 2012, 08:55

ferrarilover wrote:If only it was as easy, Camb, as just turning up and trying hard. It's not a lack of effort which sees us perform badly. The boys don't pitch up on a match day and think, collectively or as individuals, 'you know what, I can't be arsed today'. It's not a lack of application, it's not a lack of willing, it's a failure in performance, communication and understanding. You could offer these boys a million pounds a week, but that wouldn't mean they would or could try any harder than they already do. Take a look at the teams at the bottom of the Premier League, can't string two passes together for their £50,000/week. Sure, in your industry (whatever that may be), it may well be a simple case of there being a direct correlation between effort and results, with few other contributory factors affecting the outcome, and consequently, you could draw a parallel between the amount you are paid and the quality of your work, but sadly, football is not like that.
As to applauding a bad performance, as I have said previously, for my own perspective (other opinions are just as valid, this really is one that is down to personal feeling), I will clap the boys almost no matter what, because I want them to have every ounce of support they can get in order to be successful. The way I see it, if I pay out £200 to see a months worth of matches in which we are terrible, and I applaud and cheer and support them through the bad times, then those bad times are not only more likely to end much sooner, meaning that the £200 I spend in the next month will be well worth it to watch us smash teams all over the place, but also that I earn the right to celebrate when fortunes do pick up. It's a little bit like voting in the General Election. Those who do not vote immeduiately forfeit the right to any opinion or gripe with anything concerning decisions of central Government, no vote, no whinge. Supporting a football team is like that, you have to take the rough with the smooth, and being that this is TUFC, those two things are likely to come in approximately equal doses. This is what so frustrates me with Manchester City fans, crying when they go a goal down in the fifth minute against a poor Wigan side, these **** don't have the right to be upset at all, because all they have ever known is happiness and success (being that the majority of them have supported City for about 10 minutes).
Those who boo and jeer and refuse to attend when the team does badly automatically forfeit their right to happiness when the team wins matches and does well. Supporting a football team is a compromise, you take whatever comes your way, that's what really supporting a club is all about. One does not stop loving one's wife simply because she gets a bit fat or has a terrible haircut, nor does one cease to love their child because that child becomes a horrible teenager, football is absolutely no different, and it is that unconditional love which makes the lows so low and rewards you with highs that are oh-so-high.

Well, that's what I think anyway.

Matt.

Are you seriously telling me Matt that Billy Bodin has given full application and full effort in the away games you've seen this season? You can't hand on heart say that's the case surely?

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by kingsgull » 09 Oct 2012, 08:49

Matt you're gonna get me to well up ... :'( :'(

excellent post by the way

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by ferrarilover » 09 Oct 2012, 01:17

If only it was as easy, Camb, as just turning up and trying hard. It's not a lack of effort which sees us perform badly. The boys don't pitch up on a match day and think, collectively or as individuals, 'you know what, I can't be arsed today'. It's not a lack of application, it's not a lack of willing, it's a failure in performance, communication and understanding. You could offer these boys a million pounds a week, but that wouldn't mean they would or could try any harder than they already do. Take a look at the teams at the bottom of the Premier League, can't string two passes together for their £50,000/week. Sure, in your industry (whatever that may be), it may well be a simple case of there being a direct correlation between effort and results, with few other contributory factors affecting the outcome, and consequently, you could draw a parallel between the amount you are paid and the quality of your work, but sadly, football is not like that.
As to applauding a bad performance, as I have said previously, for my own perspective (other opinions are just as valid, this really is one that is down to personal feeling), I will clap the boys almost no matter what, because I want them to have every ounce of support they can get in order to be successful. The way I see it, if I pay out £200 to see a months worth of matches in which we are terrible, and I applaud and cheer and support them through the bad times, then those bad times are not only more likely to end much sooner, meaning that the £200 I spend in the next month will be well worth it to watch us smash teams all over the place, but also that I earn the right to celebrate when fortunes do pick up. It's a little bit like voting in the General Election. Those who do not vote immeduiately forfeit the right to any opinion or gripe with anything concerning decisions of central Government, no vote, no whinge. Supporting a football team is like that, you have to take the rough with the smooth, and being that this is TUFC, those two things are likely to come in approximately equal doses. This is what so frustrates me with Manchester City fans, crying when they go a goal down in the fifth minute against a poor Wigan side, these **** don't have the right to be upset at all, because all they have ever known is happiness and success (being that the majority of them have supported City for about 10 minutes).
Those who boo and jeer and refuse to attend when the team does badly automatically forfeit their right to happiness when the team wins matches and does well. Supporting a football team is a compromise, you take whatever comes your way, that's what really supporting a club is all about. One does not stop loving one's wife simply because she gets a bit fat or has a terrible haircut, nor does one cease to love their child because that child becomes a horrible teenager, football is absolutely no different, and it is that unconditional love which makes the lows so low and rewards you with highs that are oh-so-high.

Well, that's what I think anyway.

Matt.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by Sexy_Gulls » 09 Oct 2012, 01:07

cambgull wrote:
Why is football different? It is a form of entertainment and enjoyment that you get from multiple other aspects of life. Your mention of band members not being tripped up is wrong too. If you've ever been in a band you'd know what its like to deal with Sound Engineers, Venue Management, fellow bands and the people who come to see the gig.
DiThe unknown quantity of the opposition which can disrupt your plans, not being able to rely on tired material (perhaps a sport is more an extended period of improvisation) and vastly different audience habits. Football fans go as often as they can because for whatever reason they are hooked on that team, music fans go and watch a band they like, can pick and choose multiple artists and except in a few sad cases do not have teh same addiction as football fans do. I'm a musician myself actually and deal with sound engineers and management all the time. I do it on a professional basis which assures better sound, better promoted concerts and that I get paid. I wouldn't expect any of them to be working against me, and if they did I wouldn't work with them again. Though sometimes I have to, bit like a crap boss really.
Apart from being forms of entertainment there really isn't much the two have in common.
but I've worked in some tiring and hard working jobs in my life and if I couldn't be bothered today, I'd have my own colleagues giving me a kick up the backside, let alone the customers who are paying my wages
Same here, and if you were anything like me you would have off days as well. Maybe you were a bit shirty with staff and colleagues, perhaps you were under the weather and took the afternoon easy, or got annoyed and placed the phone off the hook for a few hours. Do you honestly think the players 'couldn't be bothered' on Saturday? More likely they started poorly and lost confidence against a side which didn't make many mistakes. If you really want a comparison with playing live music then I can tell you I have had performances were I make a few minor mistakes and find the rest of the show difficult as I'm not playing as well as I should. It's not nerves or pressure it just happens. And I count myself lucky that I don't have some kind of opponent to capitalise on mistakes I do make, which is the key difference between sport and our line of work.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by cambgull » 09 Oct 2012, 00:31

Sexy_Gulls wrote:The difference being that the band doesn't have to cope with another band trying to unplug their instruments and trip them up on stage.
It beggars believe that football fans, especially fans of a club like ours, don't seem to be prepared for a bad performance. Most fans will tell you they expect to get thumped every week and yet when it happens they want their money back. Its part of what makes the good results worthwhile, the fact that you've sat through a load of dross for years. If the players were capable of playing brilliantly every game then they would not be playing for us.

I clapped at the end of the game because I had a reasonable day out despite everything. I wished to applaud Rene for being brilliant and the rest for turning up. I also wished to show my continued support for a team which has done brilliantly over the past few years and a manager who I believe is leading our club in a very correct, long term way. Although all these reasons are with hindsight, I probably clapped automatically as thats what you do when events end.

The OP is well within his rights to leave without clapping, or even commit the cardinal sin of leaving early, and we are all entitled to moan about expense and poor performances. But lets stop with this sanctimony about refunds and comparisons with other walks of life. We all know football is different so don't pretend your innocence.
Why is football different? It is a form of entertainment and enjoyment that you get from multiple other aspects of life. Your mention of band members not being tripped up is wrong too. If you've ever been in a band you'd know what its like to deal with Sound Engineers, Venue Management, fellow bands and the people who come to see the gig.

I'm not saying people shouldn't clap a poor performance, its entirely up to them. I'm saying that a team is not necessarily deserving of an ovation after a poor performance and a customer, because that's what we are these days, should have every right to broadcast their opinions. Money spent is a big part of this too, people pay good, hard earned money to travel the length and bredth of the country to support their team and the least they should get back is effort and commitment to the cause. A poor performance can be acceptable, as long as the team looked like they wanted to win the game. To travel 200 miles to a game as a fan, player or staff to see the team put in a woeful performance is not acceptable. I certainly know that if I were paid 100k a year to do my job, I'd make damn sure that every customer that came within a hundred yards of me knew they were getting my full attention, concentration and concerted effort so they'd get their moneys worth.

Perhaps them just turning up on the pitch is fine for you, but I've worked in some tiring and hard working jobs in my life and if I couldn't be bothered today, I'd have my own colleagues giving me a kick up the backside, let alone the customers who are paying my wages.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by yellowmonkey » 08 Oct 2012, 19:58

austrianandygull wrote:

Only if it had been trained to do so. ;-)
You kinky devil =D =D :devil: :lol:

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by Sexy_Gulls » 08 Oct 2012, 19:53

If you go and watch a band play and they happen to play an awful set and look totally disinterested, would you stay to clap them off?
The difference being that the band doesn't have to cope with another band trying to unplug their instruments and trip them up on stage.
It beggars believe that football fans, especially fans of a club like ours, don't seem to be prepared for a bad performance. Most fans will tell you they expect to get thumped every week and yet when it happens they want their money back. Its part of what makes the good results worthwhile, the fact that you've sat through a load of dross for years. If the players were capable of playing brilliantly every game then they would not be playing for us.

I clapped at the end of the game because I had a reasonable day out despite everything. I wished to applaud Rene for being brilliant and the rest for turning up. I also wished to show my continued support for a team which has done brilliantly over the past few years and a manager who I believe is leading our club in a very correct, long term way. Although all these reasons are with hindsight, I probably clapped automatically as thats what you do when events end.

The OP is well within his rights to leave without clapping, or even commit the cardinal sin of leaving early, and we are all entitled to moan about expense and poor performances. But lets stop with this sanctimony about refunds and comparisons with other walks of life. We all know football is different so don't pretend your innocence.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by bengull » 08 Oct 2012, 18:45

We could go on listing hypothetical situations to fit our feelings, I only mentioned mine as a direct contrast to the previous.

I have nothing against those who choose to part in silence, everyone is entitled to fulfill the actions they deem fit in correspondence to the performance they have paid hard earned money to see. I just don't see the need to have to explain my actions of clapping my team off.

I chose to support this team over many hundreds of others, in doing so I made a promise to do so through thick and think, not just when we win. This team has provided me countless happy moments over the years, to appreciate those moments all the more, you have to endure afternoons like Saturday, grit your teeth and hope that the good times return next week. A little clap (it was no more than that) was merely a token gesture in appreciation that the season lasts 46 games and not just one isolated Saturday, and that I will be there next week (through thick and thin) in hope of an improved performance.

I fear some fans just can't handle losing, and if that's the case then they are supporting the wrong team. Go and support a team that spends £100 million a year if thats the case, afternoons like Saturday are the par course for teams likes ours and sometimes as frustrating and disappointing as they may be, you just have to accept them.

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by AustrianAndyGull » 08 Oct 2012, 18:37

yellowmonkey wrote:Would you reward your dog with a treat if it bit you on the bum ?

Only if it had been trained to do so. ;-)

Re: Applauding Dismal Failure

by cambgull » 08 Oct 2012, 17:49

If you go and watch a band play and they happen to play an awful set and look totally disinterested, would you stay to clap them off? Of course you wouldn't, you'd be sick of it half way through and probably walk out if it didn't cost too much. I really don't think the players deserve to be clapped off if they collectively put in a poor performance. If I don't do my job properly, I'd have all my customers giving me sh*t for it, so I have to do my job properly every day. I understand that sometimes, it's not your day, but they at least need to put the effort in.

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