Gulls leave Seale Hayne training ground

CraigUnder · Post by **CraigUnder** » 17 Nov 2015, 22:56

Another nail in the coffin or a good move to get rid of a problem area from a footballing and financial point of view?

http://m.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/TOR ... story.html

midtable · Post by **midtable** » 18 Nov 2015, 02:26

It says that Dean Edwards rented out 2/3 of the ground to Argyle which is wise but our portion is undrained so out of use. However, to walk away from a 200,000 investment is long-term madness. If we hope to back in League 2 it won't be achieved by having to phone up a school to use their training facilities. This used to be done in the 1970/80s until we went to Newton Racecourse. According to Dean Edwards on video at one of the first meetings the rent is about 600 pounds week if I remember rightly and Argyle are now paying half. Bleak times.

ROADRUNNER · Post by **ROADRUNNER** » 18 Nov 2015, 07:53

Back to the days of windmill hill then, reckon we will be playing our home games there before long, micky mouse decision if you ask me. sorry but this is looking grim for us, i thought the dave webb era was bad but it has got worse that that.

Modgull · Post by **Modgull** » 18 Nov 2015, 08:09

I don't know where the figure of £200K comes from (some of it would probably be associated with the cost of constructing the new, raised pitch) but I do know that for most of the season the two main pitches are unplayable because of drainage problems which would cost many thousands of pounds to rectify. Also, many of the portacabins (those which are not rented) and the pavilion are in poor condition requiring further investment.

Thus, a rent of £600 pw (I don't know if that is correct) plus the rental on some of the portacabins, is a figure which the Club cannot afford. It was previously justified by, and largely covered by, the academy so with the demise of the latter it was only a question of time before we gave up on what has become a white elephant.

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 18 Nov 2015, 08:35

Very short sighted decision by the (current) owners. We know how difficult it is to find any sort of fit for purpose land in the South Devon area that a professional football club could use as training facilities and handing Seale Hayne over to Plymouth Argyle (who will surely take over our bit now) has probably put an end to the whole idea of TUFC having a training facility that it can call its own ever again. The idea that we go back to the beg, steal and borrow whatever happens to be available (and fit to train on) locally really is NOT the way to run a professional football club, least ways one who (still?) has pretentious of returning to the Football League one day - looking ever more unlikely I'm afraid.

Really disappointed at the wat this decision has been made too - whatever happened to the improved two way communication we were promised? Surely, rather than just go straight to the local press with the "news" that the decision has been, it seems, arbitrarily made by the Chairman et al, it would have been far better to see whether or not the TUST could help or another fund raiser by the fans rather than just turn it over completely?

On the subject of the TUST, I think it really is time for them to have a long hard look at what they are doing and where they are heading. It's all very well them having this long term objective to buy the freehold of Plainmoor (pie in the sky thinking?) but surely with the actual football club in danger of complete free fall down the football pyramid there are far more pressing issues to hand.

As for the current board, their decision to sack Hargreaves, Hodges and Veysey (initially at least) and replace them with even less experienced "rookies" in Nicholson and Herrera looks to be complete and utter madness now given what has happened on and off the field in the ensuing months. We are now paying the price for that mistake, with the club being run on a shoestring and it seems EVERYTHING that had been built up over the Bristow years being unscrambled - next thing you know they will be closing Bristows bench down - they could easily fit everyone in the Pop and Family Stand so why go to the "unnecessary expense" of stewarding it .,.. I can see the press release being written as we speak ....

The current board were lauded by all of us when they took over, I wonder how they will feel if ultimately they are the ones who end up killing us off? Gutted, I am sure, but the way the club is being run now the future looks ever more bleak. They (the current board) are making too many mistakes and there appears to be no stability - we simply lurch from one crisis to the next on a weekly basis - if they are not up to it, and in the absence of a suitable outside investor, then surely it is time for TUST to step up to the plate and OWN the football club, I really don't think they could do much worse and at least (hopefully) it would have the whole fanbase pulling in the right direction - and not leave decisions like this down to the personal opinion(s) of one or two people in positions of power at this moment in time?

In less than six months we have lost our Academy, most of our full time staff, sacked the Management team, brought in a new (unpaid) one - lost them when they got fed up with not being paid, seen half the consortium (including the leader) simply melt away, put together a bloated squad (Far, far too many in my opinion) who are quite literally being paid peanuts (estimates range from £125 to £200 per week), appointed a rookie Manager who has no experience in firefighting (deja vu - Hargreaves) who still insists on playing when his ENTIRE focus should be on MANAGING the team ..,, and now we have lost our Training Ground - and surely without a minor miracle we are heading for National League South next season with the current set up.

The prospect of PART TIME football, a THREE sided ground ( when the Bench closed signs go up), a football team that cannot compete even at the level below (The Basingstoke humiliation could be happening all too regularly next season I fear), training down at the park or the beach or at the local schools, regular crowds of under a thousand ..... A "doomsday scenario" perhaps but you could see all of the above happening within a very short space of time, couldn't you? That is,of course, assuming the club manages to survive with seemingly NO inward investment.

Sad times at TUFC, sad times indeed.

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 18 Nov 2015, 08:55

CP Gull wrote:Very short sighted decision by the (current) owners. We know how difficult it is to find any sort of fit for purpose land in the South Devon area that a professional football club could use as training facilities and handing Seale Hayne over to Plymouth Argyle (who will surely take over our bit now) has probably put an end to the whole idea of TUFC having a training facility that it can call its own ever again. The idea that we go back to the beg, steal and borrow whatever happens to be available (and fit to train on) locally really is NOT the way to run a professional football club, least ways one who (still?) has pretentious of returning to the Football League one day - looking ever more unlikely I'm afraid.

Really disappointed at the wat this decision has been made too - whatever happened to the improved two way communication we were promised? Surely, rather than just go straight to the local press with the "news" that the decision has been, it seems, arbitrarily made by the Chairman et al, it would have been far better to see whether or not the TUST could help or another fund raiser by the fans rather than just turn it over completely?

On the subject of the TUST, I think it really is time for them to have a long hard look at what they are doing and where they are heading. It's all very well them having this long term objective to buy the freehold of Plainmoor (pie in the sky thinking?) but surely with the actual football club in danger of complete free fall down the football pyramid there are far more pressing issues to hand.

As for the current board, their decision to sack Hargreaves, Hodges and Veysey (initially at least) and replace them with even less experienced "rookies" in Nicholson and Herrera looks to be complete and utter madness now given what has happened on and off the field in the ensuing months. We are now paying the price for that mistake, with the club being run on a shoestring and it seems EVERYTHING that had been built up over the Bristow years being unscrambled - next thing you know they will be closing Bristows bench down - they could easily fit everyone in the Pop and Family Stand so why go to the "unnecessary expense" of stewarding it .,.. I can see the press release being written as we speak ....

The current board were lauded by all of us when they took over, I wonder how they will feel if ultimately they are the ones who end up killing us off? Gutted, I am sure, but the way the club is being run now the future looks ever more bleak. They (the current board) are making too many mistakes and there appears to be no stability - we simply lurch from one crisis to the next on a weekly basis - if they are not up to it, and in the absence of a suitable outside investor, then surely it is time for TUST to step up to the plate and OWN the football club, I really don't think they could do much worse and at least (hopefully) it would have the whole fanbase pulling in the right direction - and not leave decisions like this down to the personal opinion(s) of one or two people in positions of power at this moment in time?

In less than six months we have lost our Academy, most of our full time staff, sacked the Management team, brought in a new (unpaid) one - lost them when they got fed up with not being paid, seen half the consortium (including the leader) simply melt away, put together a bloated squad (Far, far too many in my opinion) who are quite literally being paid peanuts (estimates range from £125 to £200 per week), appointed a rookie Manager who has no experience in firefighting (deja vu - Hargreaves) who still insists on playing when his ENTIRE focus should be on MANAGING the team ..,, and now we have lost our Training Ground - and surely without a minor miracle we are heading for National League South next season with the current set up.

The prospect of PART TIME football, a THREE sided ground ( when the Bench closed signs go up), a football team that cannot compete even at the level below (The Basingstoke humiliation could be happening all too regularly next season I fear), training down at the park or the beach or at the local schools, regular crowds of under a thousand ..... A "doomsday scenario" perhaps but you could see all of the above happening within a very short space of time, couldn't you? That is,of course, assuming the club manages to survive with seemingly NO inward investment.

Sad times at TUFC, sad times indeed.

I was going to post but CP has said everything I am feeling and more.

It is hard to accept but the hope is forever dwindling and the darkness is continuing to set in.

Added in 10 minutes 20 seconds:
To add - this is the first time I have the club is going down the shitter. The rumours flying around have worried me and the club has obviously been massively restricted regarding finances but for those in charge to make THIS decision then either they are completely short sighted and ignorant or this is one of the last desperate acts before the death of the club (at least as we know it).

It very much feels like the latter.

Anyone got a beach ball for training this afternoon?

TUST_Member_Rob · Post by **TUST_Member_Rob** » 18 Nov 2015, 10:31

The problem here is the 200K wasted by the previous board

Seale Hayne had major issues before we used it and STILL does despite that money put in!

It was the wrong venue to use in the first place!

Jack · Post by **Jack** » 18 Nov 2015, 10:35

Let's get real about this. It was always a poor location and it was only rented on an informal basis. We needed it to maintain our academy status but the academy never achieved it's main objective which should have been to produce a steady stream of potential first teamers. Very few of our home produced 16 year olds were offered scholarships and it seemed that Geoff Harrop had to scour mainly the south east to get 16 to 18 year olds who were remotely good enough and none of them ever established themselves in the first team squad. The only exception is Dan Lavercombe and being a local he might well have come to the Club via the Community Training route.
I don't think Seale Hayne will be missed.

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 18 Nov 2015, 10:46

TUST_Member_Rob wrote:The problem here is the 200K wasted by the previous board

Seale Hayne had major issues before we used it and STILL does despite that money put in!

It was the wrong venue to use in the first place!

.... And yet Plymouth Argyle's Academy seem perfectly happy with their bit? Furthermore, would anyone be in the least bit surprised if they now take over "our" bit, spend the (relatively) small amount of money needed to sort the drainage issues out once and for all and they will have themselves a "championship quality training ground" mostly paid for by us (Thea) and all of this in our own backyard.

People still seem to keep banging on about the mistakes (and there were plenty of them) made by the previous board but the current one has been in situe for nearly six months now and to my mind they are now compounding previous mistakes by making plenty of their own - like blowing a substantial amount of the budget on placing Hargreaves and Hodges on gardening leave - we were told weeks and weeks ago that the club were close to reaching an agreement with Hargreaves on settlement of his contract - all gone very quiet since then though.There are also far too many players in the current squad ( the vast majority of which were recruited under the CURRENT regime) we would only have needed to shed a few of those to pay for the continued rent on Seale Hayne - but we haven't. Regardless of what the state of it is NOW it is what it could have been in the future that is the REAL issue here to my mind!

If TUST are so keen to protect the assets of TUFC - shouldn't they include a fit for purpose Training Ground (not just Plainmoor - which we are told may well have the impact of putting off any potential investors) in their objectives? Not saying they should particularly but I do think it's something they should have been asked to consider before David Phillips handed they keys back!!!! If you believe Brian Palk, this decisions smacks of utter madness - very short sighted, and just an easy (but ultimately very costly) way of saving the (current) owners a few quid to pay the (no doubt mounting) bills .

Looking to the weekend, anyone feeling confident that we will be able to get the game on, even at this early stage?

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 18 Nov 2015, 10:47

CPGull has said it all really. However hard you try to find scraps to be positive about, the club seems to be lurching from disaster to disaster. So now we know that £200,000 of Thea Bristow's money has been simply frittered away. Madness. I know nothing whatsoever of the Seale Hayne training ground saga but I do remember Forever saying on here that it was simply not fit for purpose because of the drainage problems. He has been proved right. It does seem that the previous Board rushed in without carrying out proper checks on the suitability of the ground.

The club needs a training ground without having to go begging and borrowing from local schools. Someone posted a while ago that the Devon FA grounds in Coach Road, Newton Abbot, would have been a better option because the land drains better. I wonder if this would still be an option? If nothing else, I would prefer the rental money the club would have to pay to go to Devon FA rather than Plymouth University or whoever owns the Seale Hayne land now.

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 18 Nov 2015, 11:03

As for Dave Phillips suggesting that "the Manager (Kevin Nicholson) is quite keen on 3G (all weather) pitches anyway" - well I am staggered. Of course, they have their place, but they are most definitely not THE answer .... as far as I know, the game is played on GRASS isn't it??? And for as long as that continues, footballers should train on the surface that they will play on!!!!!

Kit_robin · Post by **Kit_robin** » 18 Nov 2015, 11:03

CP Gull wrote:Very short sighted decision by the (current) owners. We know how difficult it is to find any sort of fit for purpose land in the South Devon area that a professional football club could use as training facilities and handing Seale Hayne over to Plymouth Argyle (who will surely take over our bit now) has probably put an end to the whole idea of TUFC having a training facility that it can call its own ever again. The idea that we go back to the beg, steal and borrow whatever happens to be available (and fit to train on) locally really is NOT the way to run a professional football club, least ways one who (still?) has pretentious of returning to the Football League one day - looking ever more unlikely I'm afraid .

Yes, and that's completely the point isn't it? I don't k ow how much seal Hayne costs to rent, but I would be surprised if it's less than 50k/year. We currently need the training ground for about 10 months a year, and for SIX MONTHS of that we can't actually use it. That is a completely ridiculous, farcical situation to be in. To pay loads of money for something you can't use. We currently try have to use 3G at paignton/Torquay academy and various grass sites around the area anyway - just look at Gareth laws videos over the last few weeks of recovering players - none of them at seal Hayne. If we're having to use them anyway, what is the point of chucking money at seal Hayne?

Seal Hayne positional and space wise was indeed an excellent site. However, if the previous board decided that's where they wanted to Base training they should have backed that decision with the required investment - they didn't because the investment needed would probably top £1m and it would be ludicrous for us to spend that sort of money on a training site.

The site has been a thorn in the side of managers ever since we went there, with ling, Knill and Hargreaves all moaning about how they couldn't improve the team because they didn't have anywhere to train. The decision to move to s3al Hayne was a poor one and we shouldn't chastise the current board for the folly of the previous owners. They have once more been forced into making a difficult and unpopular decision due to the profligacy and poor business sence of the previous incumbents.

£200k has already been spent there. I can think of many sites where, if we had made a £200k investment, would be more than suitable for a club of our size. I mean Christ, if we had stayed at the racecourse and spent £50k it would have been pretty decent!

Post by **Eirik** » 18 Nov 2015, 11:07

Artificial turf on Plainmoor? This way they could train there all year. But then again the board probably don't have the cash to pay for the new pitch so...

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 18 Nov 2015, 11:14

In response to kit robin - you will be surprised then! It was nowhere near £50k to rent the land. I stand to be corrected here, there were plenty in attendance who will if I am wrong I am sure - but I'm fairly certain that Dean Edwards informed us at the Fans Forum that it cost £1200 per month ie £15k per annum to rent the land there - I believe it is owned by a local farmer.

Since then, of course, part of that rent (half?) has been covered by PAFC sub leasing part of the area - so we have given up the training ground for something like a saving of £300 per week it seems. Of course, there would be a small additional cost for the maintenance by a part time grounds an to factor in, but yet again, I believe PAFC were helping us with the cost of that.

midtable · Post by **midtable** » 18 Nov 2015, 11:17

Artificial turf on Plainmoor has been voiced a few times. However, teams are not allowed to use it at our level so pitches must be grass.

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