Who's lost hope?

[gullintwoplaces]

Not posted for a while, been moving house. I have always been an optimist, it is the only way I can cope with supporting a team that has fluctuating fortunes.

I have almost lost my optimism now, which makes me very sad indeed. I don't hold with some of the madder "conspiracy" theories that I have seen on here, which suggest that those in charge actually want to see the club go down. I do, however, believe that a deteriorating position on the pitch has been allowed to continue without much sensible action to remedy the problems. I applaud the club for investing in the ground and in training facilities, but there has been too little attention paid to the causes of our poor performance. In turn, poor performances have knocked the gates.

The reason why I have nearly (not completely though) lost hope this season is because I can't see much prospect of the team winning a game (beyond blind hope). I see a team that has no self belief, some of the players look beaten from kick off. I have rarely seen a Torquay side so utterly devoid of confidence. It is not that the players don't want to win, just look at the performances of Mansell and Saah against Port Vale, 100% effort throughout, but they just don't seem to believe that they can win. The booing tossers who call themselves "fans" don't help though.

I believe that there is just about enough ability in the squad to win the points needed, but I have no idea how Alan Knill can restore the confidence of the players. I am resigned to the Blue Square.

[royalgull]

While everyone is different and there is the 'i've paid so i can say what i want' arguement, I just don't get what booing or shouting stuff at our own players achieves. I'd sooner wait and register my disgust with a bunch of fellow geeks i'll never meet on the internet. Same kind of relief just doesn't affect the players during the games. also booing makes you sound like a complete mongspaz.

Agree with the rest of your post 'gullintwoplaces' we don't lack effort or commitment, which is ultimately all you can ask of people, we lack talent and that is down to a) board not backing the manager well enough and then b) what money we did have not being spent well enough by the manager.

i think we're doomed, we look like a relegation club/team. Bit of turmoil, a lot of uncertainty, on a horrendous run and we don't have the players nor that swell of support to drag it around.

[Yellow4life]

Forever the optimist I am, I haven't lost hope (yet) although I am very close. The day we're found in those relegation zones with teams having points over us will I lose it.

We're still much in it, we have 1 point more and a better; albeit ever decreasing, goal difference. We're certainly get no where with being in defeat mode until we really are down in the places. For now it's just a (very) bad run!

[Bitchie Renault]

Andy, I thought you'd left the site yet again, what reason did you give for crawling back this time?

Lost hope in October when Ling decided not to try and win football matches anymore.

i just do not feel that the players deserve continued support,

So are you blaming Ling or the players??? Even if it does come from an irrational place, you're entitled to your opinion, but these further contrary and narrow comments sum up the worst of your frequent poor judgement. It is why many people on here pick you up on so many obvious points, you make it too easy.

Re the players, it's not always about deserving support, sometimes it's about needing support, and that time is right now. Football supporting, like life, is a circular thing, sometimes pleasurable, sometime painful, sometimes it gives, sometimes it takes, but if you only ever have massively high expectations of it 24/7 you will be disappointed more often than not. I can see you're a passionate fan of Torquay, but I don't think you do them or yourself many favours in how you go about it. A show of some loyalty and backbone may not be rewarded, but will be respected.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Nice opening line there Bitchie, meant in a nice way i'm sure.

I don't wish to reply to anything in your post apart from the very last sentence as i find there is little point indoing so and i'm happy for you to think whatever you want about me.

Now, the last sentence, and again, this is just to let other members on here know about relative loyalty and backbone and hopefully see some respect in me which you never will.

Home games for me are a big problem because i live 250 odd miles away, i have to add an overnight stay because unlike many of the Torquay based Gulls who travel to away games, i go on my own and have trouble keeping myself stimulated therefore a 9 hour drive in one day is just too much for me otherwise i would go more often. It has to be a weekend when my partner is off work so that she can look after our 4 year old daughter. Each home game costs me between £150 and £200 all in and you could argue and say that Torquay based fans go to more northern away games than i go to home games and it's the same distance more or less but they would maybe go on a supporters coach which costs less than half the price i have to pay for fuel and they go with other people. Others may go in groups in a car sharing costs.

I have been to 1 game at Plainmoor this season, our 1-1 draw at home to Northampton just before Christmas. I had planned to go to the Aldershot game back in October when we won 4-3 as i booked a short holiday in Devon in that week to coincide with the match. I don't think anyone who would book a holiday just so they could incorporate going to a Torquay match would be deemed as not loyal. Sadly i went on the holiday but was ill and couldn't make it on the night. I also missed the Wycombe game the other night due to illness which again was very sad. To enable me to get to that game i had to get my partner to book 2 days of her annual leave in so she could look after our daughter for the tuesday and wednesday, i had to get her to agree that i could go because of the cost implications on our total family income which is sub £16k per annum and i've got no problems in telling people that. We aren't well off by any stretch. Then i have to book a hotel, then i have to book my ticket for the bench, then i have to make sure i've got enough money for the diesel ( usually just less than £80 per home game there and back ) and other items i may need. All this for a fan who is not loyal.

Away games now, most i go to are midlands/northern based although i've also been to Wycombe this year. Every away game i go to i have to ask my mum ( who is in her late 60's and struggles a bit ) to look after my 4 year old whilst i go to the game. On average i set off at 11ish ( apart from Rotherham & Chesterfield ) and often don't get back until just before 7pm. So that is basically a full working day of 8 hours that my mum has to do just so i can go and watch Torquay play. I know she struggles with it trying to keep a 4 year old busy for 8 hours, anyone who has kids will know how difficult it is. I don't like to burden her and it makes me feel guilty as she has no other support because my dad passed away over 10 years ago. In addition to this it is also still financially difficult. Rochdale last week cost me nearly £60 all in with fuel, ticket, programme, sundries etc. I also have a weakened immune system so do get infections a lot. At Rotherham this season, Vale and Rochdale i was feeling horrible but i went and i sang and i supported. I will probably go to Accrington on saturday to stand on a freezing terrace to watch us lose horrifically having not recovered from a two pronged attack of bacterial tonsillitis and a viral infection.

You may not think i have any loyalty, backbone or should even be respected but i would hope that some of the other, more empathetic members who use this site would now think otherwise.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I accept that there are fans out there, perhaps with other difficult behind the scenes circumstances that make it difficult to go and watch Torquay and it's not just me that struggles so i don't wish to make people think that it's only me and i fully appreciate and respect other fans for trying to support whenever they can.

[Kernowgull]

Great post Andy, and big respect. I think Ritchie Bitchies post is nonsense. Firstly, the two comments he highlights dont contradict each other, and whilst they arent fact, they are valid opinions.

Secondly, how much a person chooses to support a team is down to them. You can not criticise an individual for not dedicating their whole life to a football club. I dont criticise those that do, but I go when I have a free weekend and its convenient. I could go more often, but I have a girlfriend with no intrest in football, a family who are spread out, friends in different locations, and I want to save for a car, and a holiday. These things might make me not as loyal as some, but dont make me a bad human, and dont make my contribution when I do decide to go any less valid. The way the team are playing at the moment makes it very hard for me to justify giving up my money and time.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Thankyou so much Cornish, it is most kind.

Just to throw another one in, i'm taking my family on holiday in April ( which covers the date of the Morecambe game away ) and it has been agreed between myself and my partner that if Torquay are still in the sh*t come the day of that game then i shall go to Morecambe and we shall have to forfeit a day of our holiday. Loyalty? I think i can safely answer yes to that one too!

Anyone wanting to burgle my house you're welcome. Seriously there is nothing in it worth taking. Even my telly is one of the old ones with the massive backs. I don't own a games console anymore and we no safe or cash under floorboards. You can have the cats though of you can catch them and pick them up without them taking your face off! :na:

[SteveDeckchair]

Will they be under the table???

[AustrianAndyGull]

Will they be under the table???

Brought a smile to a poorly mans face that Steve!

[westbaygull]

It's very hard to remain optimistic when we are on such a bad run. I'm really trying, but with supporters and team at rock bottom, it's tricky to see how we can turn this around. I keep thinking that just one good performance (or result) will boost everyone, but expected that to have been new manager/1st game, am getting more fretty by the day.

[Bitchie Renault]

Nice opening line there Bitchie, meant in a nice way i'm sure.

I don't wish to reply to anything in your post apart from the very last sentence as i find there is little point indoing so and i'm happy for you to think whatever you want about me.

Now, the last sentence, and again, this is just to let other members on here know about relative loyalty and backbone and hopefully see some respect in me which you never will.

Home games for me are a big problem because i live 250 odd miles away, i have to add an overnight stay because unlike many of the Torquay based Gulls who travel to away games, i go on my own and have trouble keeping myself stimulated therefore a 9 hour drive in one day is just too much for me otherwise i would go more often. It has to be a weekend when my partner is off work so that she can look after our 4 year old daughter. Each home game costs me between £150 and £200 all in and you could argue and say that Torquay based fans go to more northern away games than i go to home games and it's the same distance more or less but they would maybe go on a supporters coach which costs less than half the price i have to pay for fuel and they go with other people. Others may go in groups in a car sharing costs.

I have been to 1 game at Plainmoor this season, our 1-1 draw at home to Northampton just before Christmas. I had planned to go to the Aldershot game back in October when we won 4-3 as i booked a short holiday in Devon in that week to coincide with the match. I don't think anyone who would book a holiday just so they could incorporate going to a Torquay match would be deemed as not loyal. Sadly i went on the holiday but was ill and couldn't make it on the night. I also missed the Wycombe game the other night due to illness which again was very sad. To enable me to get to that game i had to get my partner to book 2 days of her annual leave in so she could look after our daughter for the tuesday and wednesday, i had to get her to agree that i could go because of the cost implications on our total family income which is sub £16k per annum and i've got no problems in telling people that. We aren't well off by any stretch. Then i have to book a hotel, then i have to book my ticket for the bench, then i have to make sure i've got enough money for the diesel ( usually just less than £80 per home game there and back ) and other items i may need. All this for a fan who is not loyal.

Away games now, most i go to are midlands/northern based although i've also been to Wycombe this year. Every away game i go to i have to ask my mum ( who is in her late 60's and struggles a bit ) to look after my 4 year old whilst i go to the game. On average i set off at 11ish ( apart from Rotherham & Chesterfield ) and often don't get back until just before 7pm. So that is basically a full working day of 8 hours that my mum has to do just so i can go and watch Torquay play. I know she struggles with it trying to keep a 4 year old busy for 8 hours, anyone who has kids will know how difficult it is. I don't like to burden her and it makes me feel guilty as she has no other support because my dad passed away over 10 years ago. In addition to this it is also still financially difficult. Rochdale last week cost me nearly £60 all in with fuel, ticket, programme, sundries etc. I also have a weakened immune system so do get infections a lot. At Rotherham this season, Vale and Rochdale i was feeling horrible but i went and i sang and i supported. I will probably go to Accrington on saturday to stand on a freezing terrace to watch us lose horrifically having not recovered from a two pronged attack of bacterial tonsillitis and a viral infection.

You may not think i have any loyalty, backbone or should even be respected but i would hope that some of the other, more empathetic members who use this site would now think otherwise.

Why does every one of your posts have to come with your life story?!?!? :~D

So you're a bloke in his 30s with a mum in her 60s and you have a young child. That's fairly standard fair and probably describes dozens/hundreds of Torquay fan's life status, not that far off a description of my own situation, but I'm not going to use it as a reason or excuse for anything with regards to TUFC, this is a TUFC forum not Dierdre's letter page.

I take my hat off to you if you make it to games under trying circumstances, but then to some extent that's what we all do. Every single fan could give you a sob story about what they could be doing with the money/time instead, but we go because rationally or not we justify that it is worth the investment or we are so tied to the club that we can't not go, but it really has nothing to do with the manager and players of the club.

And that was my point, you suggested you have loyalty because you go to the games and backbone that you put up with what you might describe as turgid performances week after week, I'm not disagreeing with that. I was suggesting that you lacked those qualities because you come on here and bleet and moan at any given oppotunity even when it is completely unjustified or you give contray opinions that bring all of your posts into question.

Just think of this the next time you come on here to lambast the seriously ill Martin Ling, or the young Billy Bodin, imagine if they do read these pages, do you think they would classify you as a good supporter when they read the derogatory things you have written about both of them? And also remind yourself how incredibly over-sensitive you are to even the slightest questioning of your rationale, maybe they might feel such similar tendencies, although on the surface both Martin and Billy have yet to do the proverbial spit dummy/throw toys/etc. For sure Ling has made mistakes this year and it had taken Billy longer than ideal to settle in after his permanent move, but the other side to those statements is that Ling worked miracles last year bringing in some quality players, getting some amazing results on a very slim budget and deserves huge respect and credit for that. While Billy has clearly been showing signs of great improvement in the last few games and may yet prove to be a very shrewd accusition. Also don't forget the fact that there is always more to every story than what appears on the surface, a perfect example of that is the now public understanding of Ling's illness which could well have been having an effect for weeks/months, even without his own full understanding.

Oh, and getting back on track, I haven't lost hope, but am deeply concerned. However, I'll keep beleiving in some way that there are positives and focus on them.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Not interested anymore. You're just one of those people in life that i wouldn't get on with so it's just one of those things.

I'm learning to be ok with myself at the moment and so i'm not in the slightest bit interested in what you think of me and my posts or anything. So, as long you don't post anything personally insulting, i couldn't care less what you write or think about me anymore.

Up the Gulls!!

[Scott Brehaut]

I'm learning to be ok with myself at the moment and so i'm not in the slightest bit interested in what you think of me and my posts or anything. So, as long you don't post anything personally insulting, i couldn't care less what you write or think about me anymore.

By jove, I think (s)he's got it

[Dave]

My personal forum counselling service seems to have worked, at last Andy my student, you have taken to the path to enlightenment..