Ling v Buckle

[Southampton Gull]

I'm more than happy with the way things have turned out, Ling is doing wonders and things have ended well for us. Ling on a much smaller budget is getting the absolute maximum out of the squad this season, we're 10th in the league and for us this season that's superb.

Buckle tainted his tenure here by the manner in which he left and I remain convinced he didn't sign players up to longer deals with the hope he'd take a few of them to his new club with him. That was poor and a complete lack of respect to the football club which gave him a break as a first team manager.

Couldn't agree more with all of that.

Never met him personally, and even if I had and he called me a pr!ck, if the team won on a saturday I couldn't care less. To call the first season an abject failure is so ridiculously harsh it's untrue, playoffs and Trophy final. No one has a divine right to win anything and playoffs are a lottery at the best of times. We'd lost a lot of our momentum towards the back of that season and lost that's football. We put it right the next season, hopefully learnt from our mistakes and saw the job through this time. He made a lot of mistakes that first season especially towards the back end, not about that because every manager will do so, he learnt from them and we didn't chop and change so much second time around.

So you will allow Rooney and Terry to behave however they like as long as they're successful and win on a saturday? Or do you just hold that point of view for Buckle?

We lost the play-offs to Exeter after Buckle decided to stick two fingers up to Colin Lee who was pissed off with the style of football Buckle was playing by playing three centre-halves. Even that didn't work after we scraped a 1 nil win at their place. Second leg we were coasting it until Tisdale made a few changes and that's where Buckle falls down. He can never change the course of a game through substitutions, he's always been clueless in that department.

I can allow any manager to make mistakes, Martin Ling was making some but changed the formation and look at us now. Buckle played so many players out of position it was embarrassing. He still does it now, so please tell me how he learns by his mistakes? Seems to me he makes them over and over again.

Halfway through the next season in the football League he cleared a lot of the favourites out, changed the way we play completely got some younger blood in and we were a different side. We went from fodder to mid table and anything more than staying up in the first season was a bonus.

I don't buy into staying up that season was a success nonsense. Look at all the promoted clubs that come into League 2. A very high percentage do very well in their first season, Exeter and Stevenage went straight through at the first attempt. Oh wait, we're Torquay United, we should just count ourselves lucky we're a League club again. what utter tosh. Mike Bateson a friend of yours is he?

Last season isn't even for debate whether it was success or failure. We finished 7th and got to the final. Was a great achievement for the club.

We're Torquay not Man Utd, we don't have a divine right to beat anybody in this league, we have gates that a lot of Conference sides would look down on at times we've had a decent 4 years of winning more than we lose. Which is rare for Torquay United.

Things move on, he chose to leave fair enough and just like Branston, Robinson and others are finding out the grass isn't always greener.

Just because we got to a play-off final doesn't mean we were a success. We failed to win at Old Trafford because we weren't motivated, the manager didn't give a toss (he had already accepted a job elsewhere), his substitutions and tactics that day were bizarre. Whether the club could afford promotion, whether the Directors wanted it or not is immaterial, we blew the opportunity to ply our trade at a higher level because of one man, Paul Buckle. Excuse me for not counting that season as a success. If he hadn't been attracted by ££££'s on offer elsewhere he might well have secured the services of Branston, Stanley, Robinson, Tomlin etc etc, the truth is he didn't because he knew he wouldn't be here. Does anyone remember him saying "We'll discuss contracts at the end of the season"? Didn't apply to him did it? The snake knew he would be off and wanted to make damned sure he could choose the players he wanted from our Club.

We had a good season, the way it ended and why it ended that way and also the cost of it all means I'm afraid I can't deem it a success.

You lose your argument and therefore the first round at Argyle is on you


Martin Ling for me by a country mile

[yellow]

For the record, my three most successful TUFC managers :


Frank O'Farrell (my first promotion and 6 seasons in the promised land)

Cyril Knowles (my first visit to Wembley with TUFC)

Paul Buckle (two Wembley visits and promotion from the abyss)


I hope to add Dinger to the list.

Trojan

I can only conclude from that that you did not make it to Southend in 2004 to witness automatic promotion under Leroy.

That was a brilliant side playing some of the best football seen at Plainmoor ever.

Buckle ahead of Leroy? You jest.

Royalgull

Your arguments in favour of Buckle are very much based on the success that he achieved (promotion via the play-offs). Whereas I agree with the Daves in that we got promotion despite of, and not because of Buckle. Exilegulls post is an excellent summary of his tenure.

[brucie]

One talks total cockney

The other is a total cock

[hector]

At the start of this season and probably up until Novemberish, I would have chosen Buckle but I am happy he is not with us.

In fact, on many occasions during Buckle's reign I wanted him to leave and when he was linked with Colchester and Bristol Rovers originally, I kind of felt I did not mind if he went.

His first season - until Christmas - was excellent. He did have a big budget but also he signed good players, many of whom, Todd, Nicholson, Hargreaves, Sills etc will always be fondly remembered at Plainmoor.

My first doubts about him started around Christmas of that first season when he fell out with Raynor and persisted with Rice in goal. We had an excellent chance of winning the league that season but the points that were cost by playing with an open goal cost us that.

The next season - although we went up through the play-offs - was actually a poorer season than the one before in terms of league position and points accrued. Some of the football was abysmal.

However, as some one has already pointed out, most of us would have snapped hands off, if offered what the club achieved during Buckle's reign, even though his manner sullied it somehow. He was never liked particularly and fans were quick to turn against him if things were not going well - something obviously being repeated in Bristol.

My main gripe came with the play-off defeat. I do, and firmly believe that our teams lacklustre performance was simply because everyone knew he was on his way. How can a manager preach togetherness when all and sundry know he is sorted himself out with a nice new job in Bristol? The way he left and lied about it, undid everything he did for TUFC and whilst in the past, I have liked to see ex-managers/players do well, I am one of the many TUFC fans enjoying his troubles in Bristol. It is wrong to feel that about another human doing his job but I can't help it.

[Bomber]

At the start of this season and probably up until Novemberish, I would have chosen Buckle but I am happy he is not with us.

In fact, on many occasions during Buckle's reign I wanted him to leave and when he was linked with Colchester and Bristol Rovers originally, I kind of felt I did not mind if he went.

His first season - until Christmas - was excellent. He did have a big budget but also he signed good players, many of whom, Todd, Nicholson, Hargreaves, Sills etc will always be fondly remembered at Plainmoor.

My first doubts about him started around Christmas of that first season when he fell out with Raynor and persisted with Rice in goal. We had an excellent chance of winning the league that season but the points that were cost by playing with an open goal cost us that.

The next season - although we went up through the play-offs - was actually a poorer season than the one before in terms of league position and points accrued. Some of the football was abysmal.

However, as some one has already pointed out, most of us would have snapped hands off, if offered what the club achieved during Buckle's reign, even though his manner sullied it somehow. He was never liked particularly and fans were quick to turn against him if things were not going well - something obviously being repeated in Bristol.

My main gripe came with the play-off defeat. I do, and firmly believe that our teams lacklustre performance was simply because everyone knew he was on his way. How can a manager preach togetherness when all and sundry know he is sorted himself out with a nice new job in Bristol? The way he left and lied about it, undid everything he did for TUFC and whilst in the past, I have liked to see ex-managers/players do well, I am one of the many TUFC fans enjoying his troubles in Bristol. It is wrong to feel that about another human doing his job but I can't help it.

The fallacy of the whole thing is that the real opportunity for him was at Plainmoor and not in Bristol. Compare his situation to that of Keith Hill, the former Rochdale and current Barnsley manager.

In 2008, he led Rochdale to the League Two Play-Off final where they were defeated by Stockport County. Instead of leaving Dale for another League Two side, he stayed at Spotland and two years later won promotion before establishing them in League One before moving up to the Championship to manage Barnsley.

If Buckle had stayed here instead of heading up the M5 and enjoyed a similar progression to Hill, then he would be rightfully regarded as one of the best managers this club has ever had.

During his time here it has been mentioned that he had a big budget in the Conference and we were seen as an ambitious club who wanted to get back into the League, which was reflected by the fact that we were able to sign such as Hargreaves,Todd, Sills, Nicholson, Benyon, Carlisle, Ellis, Bevan etc.

But he had to spend that budget correctly to achieve success and he did and we were promoted back to the Football League after two years.

However, once we were in the League, he did a couple of things which, in my opinion, marked him out as a poor man-manager.

One of them was persisting with Lee Mansell as a right-back when there were other players at the club at various times who have since demonstrated that they could have done better in that position than him.

Playing Mansell there demonstrated poor man-management because he sends the message out to Mansell that he doesn't think that he is good enough to play in his best position of CM, which he has since proved he can play there successfully, and it then sends out a message to the other RB's at the club that he didn't think they were good enough to play there.

In our first season back in the league, he had Adam Smith here on loan who could play there and he was used at left back by Bucks and he has since gone on to prove himself as a right back in loan spells with Bournemouth and MK Dons and has even played in that position for England Under-21s!

And last term, he has Oastler deployed in Centre Midfield and he is doing a fine job at right back now.

[Trojan 67]

Trojan

I can only conclude from that that you did not make it to Southend in 2004 to witness automatic promotion under Leroy.

That was a brilliant side playing some of the best football seen at Plainmoor ever.

Buckle ahead of Leroy? You jest.

I kid you not kiddo. :no:

O'Farrell, Knowles and Buckle, all left TUFC without a relegation on the CV.

I've missed a lot of TUFC games due to playing days and other reasons including Trojan : The Hollywood Years. Leroy's years I missed together with a lot of other managers tenure. :Oops:

[Sexy_Gulls]

I'd like to add that its refreshing to have a manager that seems to have good contacts and thinks about how players fit into our squad, rather than just buying the striker that scored against us a season ago.

[brucie]

So where do the likes of Mcphee and Macklin fit into our squad then?

[Trojan 67]

So where do the likes of Mcphee and Macklin fit into our squad then?

On the bench, usually, or out on loan.

[exilegull]

Rovers 3-1 down at home to Crewe.

I suspect Buckle has 55 minutes to save his job

[Southampton Gull]

4-1 down now, he must be gone surely?

[Dave_Pougher]

Rovers 3-1 down at home to Crewe.

I suspect Buckle has 55 minutes to save his job

Wonder If I could get a bet on anywhere about him not coming out for the second half?

[divingbboy]

Buckle's going to need a police escort when he leaves the ground today.

[Southampton Gull]

I think he'll need a faster car than that

[Modgull]

2-5 ft ho ho