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dawlishmatt wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 10:08 Oh dear the Uncle Clarke bashers are finally coming out of the closet. Osborne made a statement following the club's AGM on the 30th of September. In said statement, Uncle Clarke said that he is still fully committed to Torquay united football club and the only thing that has changed is the number 5 in his plans for the club. Blaming Osborne is ridiculous.

It's all very well saying that but until such time as there is more transparency, it's very hard to believe. Is the current budget lower than last years, and that of the previous year? We think so, but nobody knows for sure.

I don't think anybody truly expects him to keep throwing money at the situation, but it's been pretty much radio silence since he bought the club, and that's what makes people nervous. I wouldn't even be that upset if he came out and said "the budget has had to be lower this season because I've been spaffing 3/4 mil every year and that's unsustainable". That's something that everybody could understand, even if it would sting and require an require a recalibration of expectations.

Saying you're "fully committed" doesn't mean anything when the subsequent actions do nothing to affirm it. Hell, maybe the budget is enormous and we paid Dover £50k for Hanson and put him on a 4 year deal at two grand a week. At least it'd suggest some level of ambition (even if misguided, lol) - the point is that we don't know and given the sword of damocles that is the money owed to CO it's not that big of a leap to believe that's he's really ok with it going downhill.

I guess I don't know if I really believe that he's come in like Dick Dastardly twirling his moustache and going "mwuhahaaha I can drive the club into the ground and make fortunes!". Have no doubt that profit is what he came in for, and like I've said before that's not an issue for me if the footballing side is taken care of and the future of the club isn't on shaky ground.

Can only suspect there has been some sort of an accord struck between the Council and Osborne which will result in both parties making money (most likely at the same time TUFC sinks into oblivion). The only question is when? Given the abysmal way things have gone this season, it can’t be long can it?

Admiral wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 10:57 Look at the bloke’s history of asset stripping ffs, it was always going to end in tears. He backed us when we almost went up, he could have probably then sold the club on for a profit and made it ‘sustainable’ if we had got promoted. Now it’s probably plan B… A little bit of communication would be appreciated!

There is certainly a lot of assets being stripped but on this occasion they are going from Clarke Osborne to Torquay United.

If you think Torquay United with its current balance sheet could be sold for anything above zero, even if it gets into league two you are in cloud cuckoo land.

happytorq wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 15:31 It's all very well saying that but until such time as there is more transparency, it's very hard to believe. Is the current budget lower than last years, and that of the previous year? We think so, but nobody knows for sure.

I don't think anybody truly expects him to keep throwing money at the situation, but it's been pretty much radio silence since he bought the club, and that's what makes people nervous. I wouldn't even be that upset if he came out and said "the budget has had to be lower this season because I've been spaffing 3/4 mil every year and that's unsustainable". That's something that everybody could understand, even if it would sting and require an require a recalibration of expectations.

Saying you're "fully committed" doesn't mean anything when the subsequent actions do nothing to affirm it. Hell, maybe the budget is enormous and we paid Dover £50k for Hanson and put him on a 4 year deal at two grand a week. At least it'd suggest some level of ambition (even if misguided, lol) - the point is that we don't know and given the sword of damocles that is the money owed to CO it's not that big of a leap to believe that's he's really ok with it going downhill.

I guess I don't know if I really believe that he's come in like Dick Dastardly twirling his moustache and going "mwuhahaaha I can drive the club into the ground and make fortunes!". Have no doubt that profit is what he came in for, and like I've said before that's not an issue for me if the footballing side is taken care of and the future of the club isn't on shaky ground.

Do any football clubs actively disclose their budgets? It sounds like a terrible idea, disclose you have a bigger budget and players and agents negotiate for higher salaries, say you have a smaller budget and players may decide to look elsewhere.

not saying the they need to come out and say "our budget is £300k this year cf. £400k last year!".

But I think it'd be reasonable if they were to admit that they've had to tighten their belts. We're told that the budget is 'competitive' but what does that means? "competitive" could mean that it's more than 4 other teams. They could say that they've had had agreements with players who've then been offered the same money closer to London (for example). Not saying anything means that Johnson gets the bulk of the ire because it's assumed that he has a sufficient budget and he's just wasted it. Obvioiusly there's some blame to be assigned there, but being a shadowy figure in the background absolves him of any consequences, and leaves Johnson to deal with it alone. I'm honestly surprised we've not seen more pushback from GJ about it.

We've seen with recent takeovers that a little bit of candour can go a long way - I'm not expecting the man to be a die hard Torquay supporter (there really aren't that many of us) but it would be nice if he took his position as custodian of the club seriously - so far nobody has seen much evidence that this is the case

On the financial side of things, one aspect which is massively missing has been to bring through the odd player, sell them and then make money out of the sell on clause in their next move. GJ isnt the right manager for this level.....he's a wheeler dealer as opposed to a manager that is going to bring on raw young players. Part of the budget issue does lay at GJ's door in this regard

Chelston TUFC wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 19:05 On the financial side of things, one aspect which is massively missing has been to bring through the odd player, sell them and then make money out of the sell on clause in their next move. GJ isnt the right manager for this level.....he's a wheeler dealer as opposed to a manager that is going to bring on raw young players. Part of the budget issue does lay at GJ's door in this regard

that probably speaks to the issue we have with budget though, doesn't it? We're not giving players 3 year contracts very often - it's either 1 year or 2 year. So that means players can leave for free at the end of those contracts. Little, CLE, Cameron, Nemane. All examples of players who've done that. I believe we'd have got some money for Lewis since we did offer him a new deal but he was under 24, though.

Of course, if we were giving out 3 year contracts and those players were on them...that's only fine if they turn out to be good. What happens if Little gets injured for another year, for example. so, while I agree with you in principle I don't think it's as easy as "sell some players", particularly as we don't have the kind of youth set up that Exeter does (because we're out of the league now).

GJ is definitely a wheeler-dealer type, though - and he does not seem to trust any of the young players we have under contract - Kozsela, Moyes, Slough; in theory these are the players who could turn out t o be good and end up getting us a few kid when we sell. Instead they're farmed out to southern league sides.

happytorq wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 19:16 that probably speaks to the issue we have with budget though, doesn't it? We're not giving players 3 year contracts very often - it's either 1 year or 2 year. So that means players can leave for free at the end of those contracts. Little, CLE, Cameron, Nemane. All examples of players who've done that. I believe we'd have got some money for Lewis since we did offer him a new deal but he was under 24, though.

Of course, if we were giving out 3 year contracts and those players were on them...that's only fine if they turn out to be good. What happens if Little gets injured for another year, for example. so, while I agree with you in principle I don't think it's as easy as "sell some players", particularly as we don't have the kind of youth set up that Exeter does (because we're out of the league now).

GJ is definitely a wheeler-dealer type, though - and he does not seem to trust any of the young players we have under contract - Kozsela, Moyes, Slough; in theory these are the players who could turn out t o be good and end up getting us a few kid when we sell. Instead they're farmed out to southern league sides.

I'd put Little, CLE etc outside the type of player to bring through and sell on.

I do think GJ needs to either commit to the young players or release them, its of no benefit to allow them to just hang around the squad or be continually loaned out. They are in danger of becoming the next Ashley Yeomans.

It seems a contradiction that all we hear is positives about the under 18's but none come through....are they playing at too low a level? What's the point?

I do think that the club need to be more creative and Nico Lawrence is a brilliant example. He's not an academy product but has played mens football and then made his way into a PL club. He seems to have been linked with Kinetic Academy. Looking at it why can't Torquay link up with such an academy in some form. There must be plenty of talented kids in cities who might love the opportunity to come to Torquay (town and club) and would poss offer more potential than the local youth

A perpetual head scratch for me has been the youth team / young pros. To not have had a single lad break through or even be given a real fighting opportunity of a place in the first team is puzzling. Olaf splits opinions but mine is he's never had a proper chance and renewing his contract this year seems odd. Moyse looked quality in the little I saw of him. Surely when judged against the inept folk playing around Lapslie he would have done better, ir at least shown if he can cut it?

knightmaregull wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 22:06 A perpetual head scratch for me has been the youth team / young pros. To not have had a single lad break through or even be given a real fighting opportunity of a place in the first team is puzzling. Olaf splits opinions but mine is he's never had a proper chance and renewing his contract this year seems odd. Moyse looked quality in the little I saw of him. Surely when judged against the inept folk playing around Lapslie he would have done better, ir at least shown if he can cut it?

I think if we add this into the mix of first team performance and the conceding of the same goals repeatedly its hard to think that there's any quality of coaching taking place at the club at first team level.

I think GJ is a wheeler dealer, and I think when your club has no cash, you have to be.

He's also a good manager and seeing the effoets on the pitch a good man manager as well.

I'll continue to back the bloke, and the team.

dawlishmatt wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 10:08 Oh dear the Uncle Clarke bashers are finally coming out of the closet. Osborne made a statement following the club's AGM on the 30th of September. In said statement, Uncle Clarke said that he is still fully committed to Torquay united football club and the only thing that has changed is the number 5 in his plans for the club. Blaming Osborne is ridiculous.

How is blaming Osborne ridiculous? He owns the club and is ultimately accountable and responsible for what is going on. Even if one was to accept the lazy argument that Gary Johnson was suddenly an incompetent manager, Osborne has allowed this continue. He’s not lifted a finger to stop it. If the club is resorting to get players in on loan from Gloucester reserves, how on Earth is that Gary Johnson’s fault?

Johnson’s latest press after Gateshead ‘ we were not at the top of our game ‘ because of injuries and getting guys back.
We ain’t been at the top of our game all season Old Son.
It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee ffs

The owner appoints a MD to run the club, he has bigger fish to catch, the MD sticks with Johnson, big mistake, but not osborne's, people have very short memories on this site and forget what might have been, I can understand the anger but its directed at the wrong person, Johnson has never been a coach , he is not even a wheeler dealer ,he leaves that to others, and besides when did we ever sell on anyone for a profit, our youth team is playing in a league of virtually amateur clubs and undoubtedly we will sign one or two in any event to be loaned out and forgotten about.

If he's not a wheeler, dealer, not coach he should not be manager at TUFC . Gary Johnson has proved in his career he's a great manager when the goings good, he's great with money to spend. but when the wheels come off for him, the axles tend to come off with them.

Now we're paying the price, with a miracle needed to avoid a second drop in the NLS , which we may never recover from.