Management options

greb46 · Post by **greb46** » 28 Aug 2017, 07:50

What I don't understand is there are clubs in the league whose support and structure is much smaller than Torquay and yet year in year out we are fighting to remain in the league,something somewhere is going drastically wrong to remain in such a position

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 28 Aug 2017, 08:09

arrywithanh wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 07:39 I don't see GI starving the club financially, I don't see any indication that they are appointing a clown (we have had two now) as the next manager (albeit they still may), I don't see a new website (GI funded), brand development (GI funded) and so on...

I may be a sceptic but am also a realist, you can not KEEP shooting them down, why the hell invest so much (I am advised by a very reliable contact that GI are spending thousands each month keeping the club balance positive). Yes they will want some commercial benefit in the long run, but at the same time they are keeping the club alive.

Think you will find that it is on the pitch that is killing us. Thanks Kevin!

GIs goal is to obtain the freehold of plainmoor so that it can be used for residential or commercial redevelopment. In order to obtain the freehold they need to convince the council they are trustworthy custodians of the club. Hence the window dressing. If they are successful in obtaining the freehold they will get their money back many times over.

nickbrod · Post by **nickbrod** » 28 Aug 2017, 08:37

Clarke Osborne is also chairman of another company providing internet coverage in Somerset and was recently awarded a £75m contract.

SomersetStag · Post by **SomersetStag** » 28 Aug 2017, 09:17

I'm not sure Coxy would return to Torbay, he worked magic at Mansfield and got us back where we belong. The football was hard to watch but I would take the results over how entertaining they were.

Then we appointed a legend, failed massively!!!! I follow the gulls from a distance, I would be hoping for Marcus Bignot. He's hungry to do well and with the current plight he would get you out of the rut.

arrywithanh · Post by **arrywithanh** » 28 Aug 2017, 09:21

Plainmoor78 wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 08:09 GIs goal is to obtain the freehold of plainmoor so that it can be used for residential or commercial redevelopment. In order to obtain the freehold they need to convince the council they are trustworthy custodians of the club. Hence the window dressing. If they are successful in obtaining the freehold they will get their money back many times over.

All a BIG 'if'

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 28 Aug 2017, 10:05

Arry makes some interesting points. GI have tweaked a few things at the club and I also have to accept that they have invested money into various aspects of it whether I like it or not. A fact another poster pointed out to me when I said GI don't do spending money.

I'm still in the Plainmoor78 camp of believing GI need to speculate to accumulate and despite GI gradually making TUFC a stable football club, the fact remains that first and foremost they are property developers and there must be an end game somewhere along the line.

We also have their history to consider which obviously rings some pretty ginormous alarm bells.

There is something fishy here. Surely, surely there are easier ways to make money for a company like GI than buying a crappy non league football club and then making out you are running it properly at a loss for a few years just so you can get your hands on some land?

Just how much is this land worth anyway when developed?

Something just doesn't add up. On the one hand I'm convinced that GI don't give a stuff about the club or football in Torquay but on the other I'm finding it harder to believe that they are prepared to put up with the hassle of running a football club over the course of 3,4,5,6 years ? just so they can obtain some land.

Again. Without honesty, transparency and serious tangible evidence that the club is in safe keeping, it's impossible to believe GI either way.

The water just seems more murkier than ever for me.

Alpine Joe is putting forward an alternative pro GI argument and it shouldn't be dismissed however me personally am not a TUST militant. I think the trust is a complete waste of time and unfit for purpose. I'm also not a militant. I just want honesty. If GI want the club to fold it and take the land then I'd actually have respect for them for being honest about their intentions despite obviously not agreeing to it.

It's all this secrecy in business that does my head in. It's why we're bickering on forums with one side claiming they know best and slating the other.

For all I know, supporters of GI could be right in the end but I'm naturally cynical and sceptical as is my nature and the history of GI tells me not to trust.

On this occasion a leopard must change it's spots for the club to be in safe hands.

It has been done before and GI have addressed a few things at the club for the positive which I have to accept but life and business always comes down to pounds and pence and that's why I cannot trust the current owners. Especially as they have no links to Torquay and are not even fans of the club to care.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 28 Aug 2017, 10:16

SomersetStag wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 09:17 I'm not sure Coxy would return to Torbay, he worked magic at Mansfield and got us back where we belong. The football was hard to watch but I would take the results over how entertaining they were.

Then we appointed a legend, failed massively!!!! I follow the gulls from a distance, I would be hoping for Marcus Bignot. He's hungry to do well and with the current plight he would get you out of the rut.

Cheers somersetstag. I take it you are referring to Murray? I saw about 5 games at Field Mill in Murrays last season in charge due to living the wrong side of the M1 near Chez and always liked going to Mansfield ground. Big and tidy other than the demolished side stand.

The games weren't impressive I have to be honest although he didn't do THAT badly did he?

I'm not quite sure what Mrs Radford is taking but she's a bit nuts. A bit of a limelight hogger. Her and her husband though have certainly turned the club around.

Favourites for the league this season given the investment and lardy Evans factor but not made a great start. Still you should be at the very least play off certs, although I'm not entirely convinced you are a shoe in for automatic.

As for Cox. He ain't coming back so it's all academic. Best of luck staggies!!

portugull · Post by **portugull** » 28 Aug 2017, 11:07

I think it might be Moore who is aged 64 and thinking retirement is 2 or 3 years away.

His whole life has been Football as a player, 600 plus games, and a long career as a Manager.

Now would he like to retire in Rotherham or Torquay? I know were I would choose!!

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 28 Aug 2017, 11:10

Both Rotherham and Torquay are total cesspools but yes, the surrounding area around Torquay or the surrounding area around Rotherham? In that respect there is zero competition.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 28 Aug 2017, 11:10

SomersetStag wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 09:17 .......... he would get you out of the rut.

Ho hum - being a Somerset STAG, you just had to mention the RUT, didn't you ????

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 28 Aug 2017, 11:19

Plainmoor78 wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 05:01 The fact that GIs past involvement with sporting venues in the past has led to the demolition of those venues and the ending of those sports in their towns is NOT TUST propaganda it is FACT.
Joe's ranting on about TUST is just a smokescreen to mask the fact that his ideology of free market economics is what threatens the very existence of TUFC.

Alpine Joe has been asked time and time again, on this Forum and on the TFF Forum, to explain why GI have not built ONE Sports Stadium. In spite of his often lengthy posts, he has never addressed this issue. So I ask again, Joe - pleas explain why you trust an outfit that has demolished stadia, as Plainmoor78 rightly points out, but have never built a new stadium? Why will Torquay be any different from Bristol, Reading, Milton Keynes, Swindon etc who have been shafted?

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Aug 2017, 11:55

"There is something fishy here. Surely, surely there are easier ways to make money for a company like GI than buying a crappy non league football club and then making out you are running it properly at a loss for a few years just so you can get your hands on some land?"

Being in the anti GI camp 100% I totally agree with the above. Something is VERY odd, why bother, all seems pointless, very speculative and just a gamble. Why not just approach the council and say can we have some land at the Willows and we will build you a new complex. They could of course leave some land for a stadium, sell the football club OR give it to TUST and offer the new owners a lease they could not refuse. There are so many options that are better than the one they are pursuing. And from his own mouth Clarke Osbourne is not a football fan. Just tell us the bloody truth, some of us might give you credit for that and you can then fulfil your plans.

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 28 Aug 2017, 12:02

tomogull wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 11:19 [highlight=yellow]Alpine Joe has been asked time and time again, on this Forum and on the TFF Forum, to explain why GI have not built ONE Sports Stadium. In spite of his often lengthy posts, he has never addressed this issue.[/highlight] So I ask again, Joe - pleas explain why you trust an outfit that has demolished stadia, as Plainmoor78 rightly points out, but have never built a new stadium? Why will Torquay be any different from Bristol, Reading, Milton Keynes, Swindon etc who have been shafted?

that's because he - or anyone cant tomogull.

portugull · Post by **portugull** » 28 Aug 2017, 13:14

neal it could be that GI are looking for ownership of a loss making Football Club so they can put a tax loss against a big profit elsewhere.

Sometimes it suits a Company to do this as it mitigates the amount of Corporation Tax they have to pay.

Of course they have to see an upside as well and that is the sale of Plainmoor at a future date.GI are a very long standing Company and you can bet they know what they are doing.

I emphasise this is pure speculation on my part but stranger things have happened in Football.

arrywithanh · Post by **arrywithanh** » 28 Aug 2017, 14:37

portugull wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017, 13:14 neal it could be that GI are looking for ownership of a loss making Football Club so they can put a tax loss against a big profit elsewhere.

Sometimes it suits a Company to do this as it mitigates the amount of Corporation Tax they have to pay.

Of course they have to see an upside as well and that is the sale of Plainmoor at a future date.GI are a very long standing Company and you can bet they know what they are doing.

I emphasise this is pure speculation on my part but stranger things have happened in Football.

Fair point and much more plausible than half the rubbish that floats around on here... but I do believe that a separate entity effectively owns the club and whilst a loss could benefit the holding group it is unlikely due to the legal requirements with respect to running a loss-making business.

Torquay United Fans Forum