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Hi richinns,

Thank you for those kind words, your alternative argument makes much sense. My sort as you put us, are looking for answers and alternatives solutions to the problems we find ourselves in.

We have been starved of information and would appear rudderless at the helm of our club. Our job as supporters this season is to shut up and put up with the situation we find ourselves in.

We are questioning the statagies and decisions made from the Custodians of our club.
We may not be a wordsmith, such as yourself, but we do attempt to offer our heart felt feelings.

I have paid my well earnt money into Torquay for many years and may I also say, stay behind after the final whistle in order to applaud them off, no matter what the score.

Emotions are running high at the moment so I will ignore your personal negative posting and look forward to your more creative positively inspiring posts in the future.

Wow the bitchyness has gone into overdrive over these two pages. Anyone with a difference of opinion
is now an idiot.

At the risk of being labeled a fool by those who don't agree with me, here's my two pennies worth.

It's obvious we need a replacement left back Nicho is unfortunately passed it but the priority should have been someone who can play up front, particularly with ES leaving. For many games we have been on top early on but can't stick the ball in the back of the net. The defence isn't too shabby but any back four at this level is liable to concede a goal and hence we've lost many one nil.

Look at the goals for column. That's why we are in the shit. We need to win games. We need to score goals. A left back probably isn't the answer.

How many have Benyon, Stockley, Hawley and Yeoman scored this season and why would a new left back change that?

I think he'll be the 40th player we've used this season if he is named in the squad. Of the other 39, six - Conor Thompson, Dan Lavercombe, Jake Hutchings, Kirtys MacKenzie, Sam Chaney and Shaun Cooper - didn't get on the field (Cooper still might). That's been our problem all season. History tells us that generally the more players we use, the more we struggle. Didn't we have over 40 the last time we lost our Football League status?

As for the new recruit, the signing is three months too late but I wish him all the best. The Welling fans were very impressed by him but then Aldershot rated Aiden O'Brien and he played about five minutes in a month for us. Maybe Hargreaves is hoping he can settle ahead of a long-term loan next season?

tommyg wrote:I think he'll be the 40th player we've used this season if he is named in the squad. Of the other 39, six - Conor Thompson, Dan Lavercombe, Jake Hutchings, Kirtys MacKenzie, Sam Chaney and Shaun Cooper - didn't get on the field (Cooper still might). That's been our problem all season. History tells us that generally the more players we use, the more we struggle. Didn't we have over 40 the last time we lost our Football League status?

As for the new recruit, the signing is three months too late but I wish him all the best. The Welling fans were very impressed by him but then Aldershot rated Aiden O'Brien and he played about five minutes in a month for us. Maybe Hargreaves is hoping he can settle ahead of a long-term loan next season?

Exactly my reading of the situation.

Everyone who has posted their thoughts on this new arrival (hopefully he hasn't just been delivered in a moses basket and dumped outside the pop turnstiles), everyone has touched upon valid arguments for and against. Ultimately Cargill is a new face in the squad and he may be in a position to offer us something as we cannot get any worse. In that respect then yes, he is a welcome addition purely from the fact that it's another player to have a look at.

Matt is totally correct in saying that many of us have been crying out for a replacement for Nico all season and defensively we need to improve to give our embarrassingly inept strikeforce a chance of scoring a goal that might prove to be decisive come full time. That is as obvious as our inability to both create anything from the midfield and also our total failure to score enough goals from chances we might get up front. Attempting to address the Nico problem now with 7 games left is at least a small step in the right direction but giant strides are needed now and that is why I feel many fans will be upset at Chris for this. On the face of it (which is what I saw before having a think about it) fans will feel that Chris has got his priorities totally wrong and I can very much understand that and my opinion is that I actually agree with this but I can sort of see why Cargill has been brought in.

The last two games I've seen against Newport and York have both been won by goals that possibly could have been prevented with better defensive awareness even though we still failed to score in both which would have meant two 0-0 draws which on the face of it is still 2 more points than we would have had so in essence it does make sense to try and shore up the defence. I'm not disputing that. Should Cargill end up playing and contributing to us keeping a few goals out then we might glean a few extra points however it still wouldn't be enough to lift us out of the bottom 2 IMO.

We need another midfielder and maybe a couple of attackers too ON TOP of Cargill and any other defensive minded players Chris may feel he needs. That is the issue here. Fine bring in Cargill but also address the other areas of huge concern at the same time and then I can say it is sensible management. If CH doesn't do this then it is really immaterial whether Cargill saves the odd goal here and there because it won't be enough.

If CH brings in a couple of attack minded players too then that's fair enough. I don't think it would be unreasonable for fans to be very disappointed if not.

Personally I don't particularly care as we've gone anyway, anyone watching us these last 3 months in particular I think would have a good idea that that may well be the case and no amount of new players will keep us up so IMO it's all academic. It's too late but ok, let's commend CH for trying if it makes things better. I have a great deal of sympathy for Chris in many ways because he's been set an impossible task, he hasn't helped himself IMO but I have to keep telling myself he is young and has no experience whatsoever. Still, he is our manager and is now responsible in the main for results. I don't know what he is thinking or how the pressure is affecting his decision making and management approach. It's a poisoned chalice.

In a way I just hope that, like Alan Shearer who took over at Newcastle and couldn't save them from the drop, I just hope that once we've dropped then he reconsiders his position and decides to leave us in the summer. Alan is still a hero up on Tyneside and I want Chris to remain the same. I am not happy with him as our manager though for a number of reasons based on what I've seen thus far even given all the circumstances surrounding his tenure thus far and I think we would really struggle next season under his leadership. I have no evidence for this so it will probably turn out to be completely wrong but I didn't rate Ling very much and thought Knill was a joke. Both were sacked therefore it would be a safe assumption to say this was because they weren't doing very well. If Chris doesn't do very well then the same will happen to him sadly and for those that say he'll get time because he is a club legend well think again. If it goes tits up next season then rightly or wrongly some fans will be wanting him to leave. That would be very sad for everyone concerned with the club and Chris himself obviously so I just hope that he really believes in himself inside and goes into next season (if he is here) with eyes like a marmoset.

I would hate for his relationship with the club and the fans to sour if this scenario happened and I would just prefer to remember him as a true club legend who gave his all for us as a player and a genuine man who stepped in to try and save us from the drop by giving up a great job at Bournemouth and throwing his hat into the ring.

Let's not forget that but by the same token let's not let our love for him cloud our judgement about the job he is doing with us now even with inexperience, naivety and a shit team aside. It's not been good enough by any stretch and I've found the lack of urgency and lack of risk taking unacceptable considering the position we are in. Take York on Tuesday night as another great example. We compete with York after going a goal down early on and 15 minutes into the second half everything is still the same. We are still competing but creating very little whilst keeping them fairly well contained but still 1-0 down without anything looking like it will change.

After 60 minutes I would personally have told myself that it wasn't working, we still look robotic and haven't created much and we're still a goal down in a game we need to win. So I would have made a triple sub (ok so our bench was also total rubbish and without Chappell for some reason) and spent the last 30 minutes going for it. If we concede then we were going to lose anyway, if we score then we may get a draw.

It's the total inability to make changes to take the game to the opposition when we go behind which now means that like the latter Ling era, if we go a goal down we don't win and probably will lose. This is not acceptable in a team fighting for league survival. This is not about inexperience, it's about being bold and taking huge risks, to try anything and see what happens. This is where Chris has failed.

He brought Yeoman on after 65 minutes then waited a further 5 before bringing on Stockley (both like for like for Benners and Showunmi). These kinds of subs aren't giving the opposition anything to think about. Stockley is big and slow just like Showunmi and Yeoman isn't much better than Benyon. The whole team dynamic should have been changed. Go 3 at the back and press men forward. I would have even made a third sub which CH saw fit not to do. A damning indictment of the calibre of player we had on the bench perhaps? If this is the case and they are really THAT bad then why not bring in a couple of lads from the youth team and chuck them in? He is happy to give other 18 year olds ago, admittedly with first team experience lower down but what is there to lose? Like I said, it's about taking risks. If we don't have the players or cannot get the players then look at the options - we have a youth team.

So I would like Chris to leave on good terms in the summer which he will anyway. There is no doubt about that but I remain extremely doubtful that he is the man for the job next season in what is one of the most important for many many years. Get next season wrong and it doesn't bear thinking about.

That's it really in a nutshell. (for Gullscorer :na: )

Andy - After wanting Ling replaced and then Knill, are you asking also for Hargreaves to be replaced in the summer?

If so - how can the club possibly afford to do so?

Is it only me who thinks you cannot judge and make such massive decisions on Hargreaves because of the situation and players he inherited?

I for one give him my full backing and I am looking forward to seeing what he does with his own squad and plans. It might be a tough task but I will start the season in a positive mood none-the-less.

My opinion is that I don't think CH is the right man for the job. Yours is different. That's ok Rich.

I have explained my reasons why and taken into account the task he was faced with when he took over and whilst I am not blaming him for us going down, I have concerns about his managerial ability. That's all I'm saying and that is just my opinion. I appreciate yours too and I understand why you may think it is unfair to pass judgement on him at the moment.

If CH is here next season then of course we get behind him and see what happens. That's all we can do, I'm just expressing my concerns early doors as they are there in my mind. They are not fact, they are just my thoughts on the situation.

I have no problem with that Andy. We differ on an opinion but your arguments are not as unreasonable as the suggestions such as borrow money from next year’s budget, ripping down the big screen and flogging it, or blaming the building of the bench (replacing a stand which was classified as unusable due to health and safety concerns) for possible resolutions or reasons for the position of the club.

If your concerns and thoughts are correct I am still left wondering how we could possibly afford the replace him?

At the time of his appointment Dave Thomas of the HE called it ‘the safest job in football' as the club 'could not possibly afford to sack him'.
I see no reason why this would have changed.

I also had my doubts about CH being appointed, would much have preferred an experienced manager in our predicament. Unfortunately the board had little money left after Knill and Ling paid off and pandered to the vocal minority's popular choice.

Hopefully he can assemble a decent side next season but hard to be upbeat on this season's evidence.

Got to say I have seen absolutely nothing in Hargreaves whatsoever to suggest that he has the first clue about football management.

Give Hargreaves a chance he can be judged over the summer as this is Knills mess and it shows that as Chris has not played his striker very often. He's most probobly had the chance of this lad whilst after he could not get a striker and yes he may be thinking about next season but not given up on this.

ferrarilover wrote:OK then lads, let's sign someone with lots of L2 experience. Good in the air, excellent with both feet. Comfortable joining a brand new group of players and skotting straight in. Also good for a goal every other game. He currently plays for Leeds United, where he earns three grand a week. Northampton are also in for him and are willing to pay 2/3 of his salary. Find some way to make a better offer. Matt.

Ahhhhh ...... Shaquille Coulthirst - NOW the signing of Baily Cargill makes sense !! Not from bankrupt (allegedly) Leeds, but from Spurs !! I thought the loan deadline was 5 pm yesterday so how did we manage to smuggle in this lad ?? "There's only one Shaquille Coul ....." - doesn't roll off the tongue very easily, does it? The last loan player we had from Spurs was Adam Smith ..... much easier !!

tommyg wrote:I think he'll be the 40th player we've used this season if he is named in the squad. Of the other 39, six - Conor Thompson, Dan Lavercombe, Jake Hutchings, Kirtys MacKenzie, Sam Chaney and Shaun Cooper - didn't get on the field (Cooper still might). That's been our problem all season. History tells us that generally the more players we use, the more we struggle. Didn't we have over 40 the last time we lost our Football League status?

Tommy, you usually find the inverse is true. Teams dont struggle because they use so many players. They use so many players BECAUSE they are struggling and trying to find a way to "freshen the roster" to use an Americanism.

If a team's doing fine, there is no need to cast about trying lots of different faces...We can safely say (for instance) we used a lot less players in our 2nd season back in the league (about 25% less if soccerbase is accurate) than we did our 1st season (and some of them would have been caused by the transfers of Benyon and Wroe in January).

Almost 36 hours in, and not one of our self-professed experts has come close to offering a way for us to afford this miracle goalscorer.

There was one suggestion, but that read like a list of the top 4 worst ideas in history (not just from football, either). Looks like he'll be going to the Cobblers then. Shame, since the answer was, apparently, so easy.

Matt.

With folk up here preparing for their trip to Wembley with the Spireites and them looking certs to go up, can I suggest we borrow a shit load of cash and try and hit the jackpot like them and if it goes tits up then we can get away with not paying it for a bit and start again like Pompey? I think we have been doing something wrong all this time (ie working with a budget) when we should be throwing financial caution to the wind and having great times. It works for others.

That is my suggestion. **** being run properly, get into debt and let's sign all and sundry and have a whale of a time. If it all goes wrong we'll be back where we started anyway. In non league and watching shit football. Is this a viable option? Morally as a club we are doing the right thing but even that looks unsustainable with fans having to continue to pay more for an increasingly poor product. Can't we do what Chesterfield and others have done, pay more and enjoy the ride instead of paying more to watch endless poverty footy?

It's just a question. What would you all think if we started operating well beyond our means in the pursuit of happiness?