Paul McCallum

[ferrarilover]

I think that article shows that Knilly has a longer term plan. The last line smacks of "I want to play our squad, get them all ready for first team action, then go from there over the course of the next two or three years, build a squad capable of promotion". Sadly, with the injuries we've had and the inauspicious start, he's not got the luxury of games to lose now, so he's bringing ready made replacements to secure us a few points from the enxt few games and move us away from this psuedo-perilous position we are in, in order to appease those calling for his head because we're near the bottom some 6 months before the end of the season.

It's short termism at its worst and it will end up costing the club more than it makes them, but it's what must be done because of the way the game has gone over the last few years. More and more idiots have louder and louder voices and "fans" of clubs like ours expect to see rousing displays, top of the table clashes and promotions every week. They forget that 99.9% of our existence has been in the division we presently inhabit and that 99.9% of our future will likely be spent here too. They want promotion becvause that's what they think is the minimum aceptable standard, so to be where we normally are (somewhere near the bottom of Division 4) is somehow now a fauilure.

It will cost us in the long run, but it will bring short term gain and the long term loss will never be proven (no one can say for sure what would have happened in the future under different circumstances), so those unable to see past then ends of their noses will scream and shout about being right, when all along, they're wrong and harmful and grossly ignorant with it.

Would you believe, this is a positive post...

Matt.

[ferrarilover]

TBH Ball wasn't needed either and he was not very good. He kept on being picked though despite being a temporary player.

Had he been any good, Andy, he would have been exactly what we needed. Sadly, given the players we missed out on (both loan and perm) in the summer, we were left with a very small strike force. This limits the number of options we have going forward (just as fat-boy Howe did last term). The big man little man combo served Bradford very well last season and continues to do so today. This is what Knilly was searching for. Sadly, he was conned into bringing in one of the worst players I've ever seen. A mistake on his part, in part almost certainly, but sending him back and seeking alternatives has undone that error. The circumstances under which he has attracted Azeez (and the others) are frankly remarkable.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I think that article shows that Knilly has a longer term plan. The last line smacks of "I want to play our squad, get them all ready for first team action, then go from there over the course of the next two or three years, build a squad capable of promotion". Sadly, with the injuries we've had and the inauspicious start, he's not got the luxury of games to lose now, so he's bringing ready made replacements to secure us a few points from the enxt few games and move us away from this psuedo-perilous position we are in, in order to appease those calling for his head because we're near the bottom some 6 months before the end of the season.

It's short termism at its worst and it will end up costing the club more than it makes them, but it's what must be done because of the way the game has gone over the last few years. More and more idiots have louder and louder voices and "fans" of clubs like ours expect to see rousing displays, top of the table clashes and promotions every week. They forget that 99.9% of our existence has been in the division we presently inhabit and that 99.9% of our future will likely be spent here too. They want promotion becvause that's what they think is the minimum aceptable standard, so to be where we normally are (somewhere near the bottom of Division 4) is somehow now a fauilure.

It will cost us in the long run, but it will bring short term gain and the long term loss will never be proven (no one can say for sure what would have happened in the future under different circumstances), so those unable to see past then ends of their noses will scream and shout about being right, when all along, they're wrong and harmful and grossly ignorant with it.

Would you believe, this is a positive post...

Matt.

Matt I agree in principal to much of this.

I expect nothing from Torquay but struggle and I would like to think that most fans expect the same. Top of the table clashes would be nice but i'm equally happy playing Bury or Morecambe and rousing football would be nice too but I can go without for while every now and then.

It is the manner in which Knill has gone about his business that perplexes and confuses people and they cannot see any methodology in his management. As performances by and large have been worse that under Ling and results likewise then I don't believe fans are being unreasonable when they criticise Alan. Bringing players in left right and centre just for the hell of it is proving counter productive and has destroyed any continuity or gameplans we might have had even allowing for injuries and suspensions.

I appreciate that fans need to have faith in their manager but I see little in what Knill is doing to be able to have that. It works both ways. If there I could understand what he was trying to do in places then yes, I would be happy to give him the time to get things worked out but I don't see that he knows what he is trying to do i'm afraid.

I'm not fickle, I am fully appreciative of the difficulties our managers face but often they don't help themselves. Ling refused to let the handbrake off now and again for some reason and it became a big problem for many but I understood why he wanted to play that way, I just thought we could be more positive. Knill is just sort of chucking players names in an FA Cup draw bag, mixing them around with his hand then pulling 11 out each week and starting them. Then he is asking Carol Vorderman for a few more consonants ( loan players) to be put in there just for effect and then doing the same again the week after. Then he is failing on the numbers round by f*cking about with the formation each week.

[stefano]

Knill is just sort of chucking players names in an FA Cup draw bag, mixing them around with his hand then pulling 11 out each week and starting them. Then he is asking Carol Vorderman for a few more consonants ( loan players) to be put in there just for effect and then doing the same again the week after. Then he is failing on the numbers round by f*cking about with the formation each week.

A little rude about our manager that and I am sure it is not true. I thought he just looked on this forum a couple of hours before kick off to see what team Supergulls has picked! (as indeed I expect our opponents of the day do as well!)

[frenchgull]

I agree with matt (well there's a first time for everything ) but we are what we are,a fourth division football team who occasionally have a good season but more often than not we don't.This season looks like a tough one with mistakes made by management/players and some bad luck thrown in as well,we need to stick together and back Torquay United.Tomorrow Portsmouth will be a challenge but it's Portsmouth of 2013 not Portsmouth of twenty years ago,it,s just a name and as the saying goes,the bigger they are the harder they fall,nothing is impossible,get behind the team and give it a go.

[Southampton Gull]

Very good post, Matt. I wonder how many village idiots will grasp the concept though.

[Richinns]

I think there are still a handful who are left feeling this way Dave - just not enough to make TUFC one of the most negative football clubs in the league which is considerably unhelpful in home games.

[Southampton Gull]

I think there are still a handful who are left feeling this way Dave - just not enough to make TUFC one of the most negative football clubs in the league which is considerably unhelpful in home games.

We get them at games no matter how well or how poorly we're doing, Rich, some things never change

[AustrianAndyGull]

As someone who thinks Knill is doing a desperately sh*t job I wouldn't say my wholehearted vocal support through much of the games at Morecambe, Northampton, Fleetwood, Wycombe and Burton would render me a negative influence on our team or club. Why must we all be grumpy, moaning, cynical, anodyne, depressing people if we think the manager is crap? Is it some sort of default setting?

I get behind the team 100% EVERYWHERE AND ALL GAME but i'm a village idiot for holding an honest opinion based on what I have seen so far which is a man who is paid to manage our football club isn't doing a very good job of it. I don't think anyone can say he IS doing a good job of it so then how are we village idiots and how do proactive vocal supportive fans like myself make games a negative experience for the players?

[Southampton Gull]

Andy, in no way was I insinuating you were one of the miserable moaning little barstewards.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I sort of knew. I am a bit but not for the sake of it. I just love being involved at games and I get frustrated. I'm black and white thinking again though!

[tomogull]

It's short termism at its worst and it will end up costing the club more than it makes them, but it's what must be done because of the way the game has gone over the last few years. More and more idiots have louder and louder voices and "fans" of clubs like ours expect to see rousing displays, top of the table clashes and promotions every week. They forget that 99.9% of our existence has been in the division we presently inhabit and that 99.9% of our future will likely be spent here too. They want promotion becvause that's what they think is the minimum aceptable standard, so to be where we normally are (somewhere near the bottom of Division 4) is somehow now a fauilure. Matt.

Well, call me a village idiot if you like, but I disagree with this. I think the majority of fans accepted this was going to be a consolidation season where we expected to be around halfway in the table. We weren't expecting 'top of the table' clashes. Neither were we expecting to see 'rousing displays' every week. What we were expecting to see was some sort of stability and a reasonable game of football played with desire and commitment but what we've seen is the complete opposite. I can't word it any better than Andy's summing up of the Burton game which hasn't been challenged by any who were there on Tuesday night - There was nothing. No ingenuity, no cohesion, no creativity, no passion, no energy, no ideas, no leaders, no gameplan, no interest, no chances. This description applies to most of this season's matches. I don't accept that we should be 'somewhere near the bottom of Division 4'. We're a well run club in my opinion and should aspire to better things.

I'm certainly not calling for Alan Knill to go, but the present apparent disarray at the club can't be allowed to continue for too much longer.

[Southampton Gull]

Tomo, I don't think anybody believes any different to yourself in regards to the position we find ourselves in at the moment, the thing that sets you apart from the village idiots is that you were not clamouring for the Manager to be sacked before we'd played 10 games.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that if we're still in this position come January then that will be the time to think about decisions like getting in a new manager. I'd agree totally with that.

[ferrarilover]

We do aspire, of course we aspire, but we're limited by much more than a lack of aspiration. We're in a division of teams, teams like Burton Albion who can stretch to paying more than we can. We're in a division of players who are "forced" to sign for the highest bidder because they only earn normal money. The difference between £150,000/week and £200,000/week is, essentially, nothing. The difference between £1200/week and £1500/week is massive.
We can't compete with 90% of clubs in L2 in terms of money. Despite you and I knowing differently, we are, in the eyes of the young, mainly pretty stupid, mainly fairly simple men that we're trying to attract, geographically disadvantaged. We are historically challenged, we're not a fashionable club, we have no history, players, agents, friend and family probably think the same as the vast majority of the population, "Torquay United, aren't they a non-league side?"

We have **** all to offer down here. As a young, black man interested in money, easy birds and nightclubbing, do you move to Bristol Rovers on two grand a week, or Torquay United on eight hundred?
Move to Rovers, you're surrounded by similarly minded individuals, in a place full of bimbos willing to throw themselves at a pro-footballer and you've plenty of cash in your pocket. You can tell your mates you're at Rovers, who are historically a decent and well supported club and one which ordinary people view as a 'big' club.
Contrast this with coming to us, stuck down here in God's waiting room, surrounded by the blue rinse brigade, with one dreadful nightclub and where you'll get laughed at for playing for TUFC, both by the girls and by your mates, who will think we're in the BSS and play pub sides on Sundays down the local rec.

Looking around the division today, it's a miracle that we're still here. Judging from the teams in the Conference, we should be, according to our size, fan base, budget and all those other practical considerations, languishing in the Skrill South. The fact that we aren't is miracle enough for me, without asking for more.
So no, it's not wrong to aspire to greatness or even mediocrity, but given the facts of the situation in which we find ourselves, it's not really wrong for us to be where we are, either.

Matt.

[nickbrod]

I agree with Matt's assessment of what a Torquay fan should expect. After 48 years of following the Gulls nothing much has really changed throughout these years ie good, exciting seasons flirting with promotion, average mid-table fare and scary bottom of the table relegation fears.
Support for the club has always been a smallish hard core and floaters who turn up for the occasional big matches. If over the course of this season we finish in the bottom two then that's our level however I still believe Knill and Brass will enable us to avoid that senario.
My real concern is why the team can't play for 90+ minutes as we seem to manage only one half a match. Tomorrow, playing against 'big' opposition should enable us to raise our game and with a big attendance anything is possible!