Is Hargreaves fit for purpose?

oldpedant · Post by **oldpedant** » 17 Oct 2014, 08:58

He should have acknowledged that he was in some way culpable for last week's debacle.

In this article
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 96948.html
Pep Guardiola admits he might have got his team selection slightly wrong in the Champions League semi-final defeat by Real Madrid at home.

â€œI got it wrong man. I got it totally wrong. Itâ€™s a monumental f**k up. A total mess. The biggest f**k up of my life as a coach. I spend the whole season refusing to use a 4-2-4. The whole season. And I decide to do it tonight, the most important night of the year. A complete f**k up.â€

That's how it's done!

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 17 Oct 2014, 10:00

oldpedant wrote:He should have acknowledged that he was in some way culpable for last week's debacle.

Why should he have to? Everybody makes mistakes sometime or other. The fans on the terraces don't know half of what goes on behind the scenes and what a manager may have to cope with, and even though he has to deal with a certain amount of publicity he also has to behave with a certain amount of discretion. There's a reason he's the manager of a team currently challenging for promotion and why the rest of us are supporters. That's his job. And this is our job: to support, and not to criticise at every opportunity.

Behind-the-Gulls · Post by **Behind-the-Gulls** » 17 Oct 2014, 10:17

I've enjoyed virtually every match home match I've watched this season(missed Aldershot)-haven't been able to say that for about two and a half seasons.
Hargreaves is doing a good job in difficult circumstances;working his socks off to get the club back in the league-may not happen this season but he deserves our full-backing and think he will turn-out to be a very good manager. Constructive criticism is fine but it becomes destructive when so-called "fans" lump every single mistake Greavsie makes together, in order to justify their claims he's not up to the job.

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 17 Oct 2014, 10:21

We havn't got a hope of promotion if we lose to the likes of Alfreton and Telford. Noone expects us to win every match but losing to both these teams in a fortnight is unacceptable

Sesimbra · Post by **Sesimbra** » 17 Oct 2014, 10:35

Oh dear! I raised what I considered a perfectly acceptable question in the hope that there would be intelligent responses and discussions. How wrong I was. Apparently I am now a moron for daring to raise a criticism of our manager. It seems he is sacrosanct to some probably because of his excellent record as a footballer. That doesn't mean he cannot be criticised as a manager.
I am grateful for the few who made an intelligent response but it seems a number have their hackles up when CH is mentioned and seem unable to respond in a sensible way. If they read my posting they will see that I gave CH credit for putting together a reasonable squad considering the restraints.
I entered this Forum some years ago in the hope of joining in sensible discussions. Alas that seems not to be the case and I shall not contribute again.
I have followed Torquay for over 50 years and I will continue to do so and hope that return to the Football League is sooner rather than later.

stefano · Post by **stefano** » 17 Oct 2014, 10:59

It is a pity that you do not want to contribute anymore sesimbra as having watched Torquay United since the 1950's you have a great deal of knowledge to impart. I cannot say I blame you mind. There is no excuse for personal abuse on a football forum or indeed any other forum. Most supporters would raise questions when their team has lost 3 of the last 4 games and conceded 8 goals in 2 of those games against 2 of the worst teams in our league. You raised the issue in a balanced and polite way, and you should have had responses in a similar vein. It is possible to disagree with a view without being abusive or offensive.

I think CH is learning and learning well. He has very little budget to play with and at the moment we are a lot higher in the league than I was expecting. I thought we would finish 12th to 15th (and of course we may well still do) but there have been a lot of encouraging signs before and between the stuffings by Telford and Alfreton, and it would not surprise me at all if we completed the double over a good Grimsby Town outfit on Saturday.

Let's hope so anyway, and I do hope that you will stick your toe back in the water again in the future sesimbra.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 17 Oct 2014, 11:22

Sesimbra, it is always reasonable to question the manager, I think it was the tone of your post and words that you used which have raised the hackles of some.
Chris Hargreaves has made some mistakes, he's a rookie manager and like all other people doing a new job for the first time mistakes will be made. Paul Buckle, Leroy Rosenior, Kevin Hodges, all rookie managers who made mistakes but also our most successful managers of the last 20 years.
I care not what statements are made publicly by the manager, the important thing is that lessons are learnt and mistakes are not repeated.
To suggest that Chris Hargreaves is not fit for purpose is a tad harsh to say the least.

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 17 Oct 2014, 11:33

PhilGull wrote:Sesimbra, it is always reasonable to question the manager, I think it was the tone of your post and words that you used which have raised the hackles of some.
Chris Hargreaves has made some mistakes, he's a rookie manager and like all other people doing a new job for the first time mistakes will be made. Paul Buckle, Leroy Rosenior, Kevin Hodges, all rookie managers who made mistakes but also our most successful managers of the last 20 years.
I care not what statements are made publicly by the manager, the important thing is that lessons are learnt and mistakes are not repeated.
To suggest that Chris Hargreaves is not fit for purpose is a tad harsh to say the least.

There is only one word for it inexperience and the assistant needs to take blame as well.

Sesimbra · Post by **Sesimbra** » 17 Oct 2014, 11:55

Philgull I did not say that Hargreaves is not fit for purpose. I posed the question based on recent events. It seems from the sensible replies received that he is fit for purpose but has to learn as a rookie manager. I accept that.

ROADRUNNER · Post by **ROADRUNNER** » 17 Oct 2014, 12:59

have to agree with phil gull on this one, its knills fault we are in this mess, and chris hargreaves will make mistakes as will anyone, the guy is doing a decent job as far as im concerned and the right man to take us back up, we will lose games to teams at the top and the bottom, it was the same when that ferret buckle was in charge we lost some games that we maybe shouldnt have and so will tarzan. so come on lets give the guy a break.

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 17 Oct 2014, 14:45

Behind-the-Gulls wrote:I've enjoyed virtually every match home match I've watched this season(missed Aldershot)-haven't been able to say that for about two and a half seasons.
Hargreaves is doing a good job in difficult circumstances;working his socks off to get the club back in the league-may not happen this season but he deserves our full-backing and think he will turn-out to be a very good manager. Constructive criticism is fine but it becomes destructive when so-called "fans" lump every single mistake Greavsie makes together, in order to justify their claims he's not up to the job.

Bang on

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 17 Oct 2014, 14:47

ROADRUNNER wrote:have to agree with phil gull on this one, its knills fault we are in this mess, and chris hargreaves will make mistakes as will anyone, the guy is doing a decent job as far as im concerned and the right man to take us back up, we will lose games to teams at the top and the bottom, it was the same when that ferret buckle was in charge we lost some games that we maybe shouldnt have and so will tarzan. so come on lets give the guy a break.

You do a major disservice to ferrets, Sir.

Funny though

Sesimbra, ignore the obvious trolls and carry on. There's nothing wrong with posing the question, the ones who can't see past the obvious are the ones with the problem. A thick skin does help from time to time though

Behind-the-Gulls · Post by **Behind-the-Gulls** » 17 Oct 2014, 15:00

Yeah ferrets chase rabbits-Buckle chased birds*
*For those born post 1970 that means females

gateman49 · Post by **gateman49** » 17 Oct 2014, 15:57

Hey, Sesimbra, you didn't keep quiet for long did you, after stating that you would not to contribute again? Welcome back.

Maybe the words in your first post did raise a few hackles but at least the debate has, in the main, been reasoned and reasonable.

Please carry on contributing as not to do so is a form of self censorship.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 17 Oct 2014, 17:04

Gullscorer wrote:I thought my post was sensible too...

Yeah - sorry Gullscorer - it is. And Lee's.

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