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If you look at it like that Supernickywroe, your'e right

frenchgull wrote:I have followed Torquay for forty seven years

And so it begins...

frenchgull wrote: and it gives me no pleasure in saying that we are in irrevocable decline

Oh God. Ok, come on then, reason this one out to me. In terminal decline from what? The giddy heights of the L2 Playoffs a couple of years ago? Of 2533 recorded League matches in Torquay United history, we have played 1981 (78%) in what is today called L2. 92 were played in the Conference (3.5%), so in total, just 460 matches (the remaining 19 or so %) have been played at a level above where we are now. Hardly a decline. However, perhaps some of your reasoning will get us somewhere.

frenchgull wrote: I think our true place will be in the conference south

A division we have never sunk to and which, even when we were in the Conference National, we didn't look anything like dropping in to.

frenchgull wrote: My reasons for posting this is

...insanity?

frenchgull wrote: 1,we are owned by a lottery winner,God bless her because without her we already would be in the conference

Yeah, those pesky lottery winners, always taking club from L2 down to the Conference South. For that matter, have a look at what happens any time rich people get involved with football. It's royally **** over Fulham, Man City, Chelsea,Wigan. They were all doing well until rich people came in and took them down to the Conference South...

frenchgull wrote: 2,we have a board without any entrepreneurial expertise imo

Which, presumably, is why our Board pootle about in shit cars and live in terrible bedsits in Hele village.

frenchgull wrote: 3,Torquay is not on a motorway and miles away from the football world.

A fact which definitely hasn't been the case for the last 100 years, a time throughout which we definitely haven't managed to live beyond the Conference South.

frenchgull wrote: 4,Torquay has an ageing population with so many distractions on the T.V.that is less expensive to watch that the twenty quid to get into plainmoor

Again, telly, its rise in popularity throughout the 1950s and 1960s coincided with our prolonged spell in the Conference South throughout that period.

frenchgull wrote: 2000 supporters is not enough to sustain a professional football club.

Our average attendance this year is 2850, so I'm not sure why you're worried about 2000. However, I will add that Burton (avg attendance 2746, league position 7th), Morecambe (avg attendance 1887, league position 5th), Dagenham (avg attendance 1650, league position 11th) and, to a lesser extent Accrington (avg attendance 1598, league position 23rd) all seem to be managing on smaller crowds than us.

So, a flimsy argument leading to a ridiculous premise. Ridiculous, if you ask me, but then, each to their own.

Matt.

Sorry Louis, I seem to have inadvertently circumvented the naughty word filter again.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote: And so it begins...
Oh God. Ok, come on then, reason this one out to me. In terminal decline from what? The giddy heights of the L2 Playoffs a couple of years ago? Of 2533 recorded League matches in Torquay United history, we have played 1981 (78%) in what is today called L2. 92 were played in the Conference (3.5%), so in total, just 460 matches (the remaining 19 or so %) have been played at a level above where we are now. Hardly a decline. However, perhaps some of your reasoning will get us somewhere.
A division we have never sunk to and which, even when we were in the Conference National, we didn't look anything like dropping in to.
...insanity?
Yeah, those pesky lottery winners, always taking club from L2 down to the Conference South. For that matter, have a look at what happens any time rich people get involved with football. It's royally **** over Fulham, Man City, Chelsea,Wigan. They were all doing well until rich people came in and took them down to the Conference South...
Which, presumably, is why our Board pootle about in sh*t cars and live in terrible bedsits in Hele village.
A fact which definitely hasn't been the case for the last 100 years, a time throughout which we definitely haven't managed to live beyond the Conference South.
Again, telly, its rise in popularity throughout the 1950s and 1960s coincided with our prolonged spell in the Conference South throughout that period.
Our average attendance this year is 2850, so I'm not sure why you're worried about 2000. However, I will add that Burton (avg attendance 2746, league position 7th), Morecambe (avg attendance 1887, league position 5th), Dagenham (avg attendance 1650, league position 11th) and, to a lesser extent Accrington (avg attendance 1598, league position 23rd) all seem to be managing on smaller crowds than us.

So, a flimsy argument leading to a ridiculous premise. Ridiculous, if you ask me, but then, each to their own.

Matt.

Thank you

We've managed just fine before and will now - Respect Frenchgulls op but it's all nonsense we just need to believe and be realistic

Robiberto22 wrote:

Thank you

We've managed just fine before and will now - Respect Frenchgulls op but it's all nonsense we just need to believe and be realistic

I could have done all that Robiberto - but I just couldnt be ars*d! =D

We have managed, other than for two years, to exist in the Football League since 1927. Up until World War 2, this was a difficult challenge for us but from then until David Webb, we were not troubled by fears of re-election as it was. In fact, up until Webb, we only applied for re-election once - at the end of our first season.

It was Mike Bateson, who successfully, persuaded everyone, that being a Football League club was beyond TUFC, conveniently overlooking the fact we had managed to be one, without too much trouble, for 64 years before he took over.

But that misnomer seems to have stuck. That singular lack of ambition, in that being a Football League club is simply too much, is nonsense. There are plenty of clubs, who if they have had the sort of recent history that we have had, would be getting the sort of gates we do. We get low crowds because we are crap. The experience of Plainmoor offers nothing except the drone of dullness.

Those who suggest the South Devon public are apathetic...well is it any wonder? Even people who go every week are losing the will to care and give a shit. It is just utter garbage. And the longer we stick with Mr Monotone, haven't a clue, the longer this malaise will linger.

Again, Hec, I refer you back to those season barely 3 years ago where we made Wembley (or Her appointed representative in the City of Manchester) 106 times in 15 minutes. We still got about 11 people/week.

It doesn't matter how we play, we get the same number of fans through the gate.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote:Again, Hec, I refer you back to those season barely 3 years ago where we made Wembley (or Her appointed representative in the City of Manchester) 106 times in 15 minutes. We still got about 11 people/week.

It doesn't matter how we play, we get the same number of fans through the gate.

Matt.

You bamboozle with stats. Those you state here simply make no sense whatsoever. What are you on about? I'm sure there is point to them!!!!

We went over this a fortnight ago, last time you claimed that attendances at Plainmoor are linked with the relative success or failure of the team on the pitch. More than one of us demonstrated that simply isn't the case. We came within a whisker of relegation and attracted about 50 fewer people each week than we did on our romp to the Playoffs but 12 months earlier.

What happens on the pitch has absolutely no effect on the crowds.

Matt.

Not quite true, but the difference at L2 is marginal. Attendance levels are more likely to be linked to random, off field variables.

Maybe a little OTT and knee-jerk but I do think the OP has a point. United have always struggled to gee up the notoriously apathetic South Devon public, but a certain level of rot seems to have set in long-term, unrelated to what happens on the pitch.

bloody hell, lets all give up now! as for the crowd figures, look at the rest of the cup crowds yesterday, bristol city 5000 odd, morecombe1400, oxford 3,000, peterborough 3000, and wycombe had a handfull less that us. again i think doom and gloom merchants are out in force.

I just don't think the cup has the pull it once did unless you pull a big name out the hat. A game like Torquay v Rochdale? Meh, I can see that in the League.

I don't think the club is in terminal decline. The size of the gate yesterday was expected and is comparable to other clubs. Crowds are not high and are very quiet largely because we are so poor. What do people expect, there ain't much to cheer at the moment!

Thanks Mat,knew I could count on you to respond to my posting,unfortunatly you have not convinced me that my thoughts and predictions are not correct.Sorry but forty seven years are forty seven years so it begins,1 Terminal decline as you say is death to torquay ,I did not mention terminal i say decline,no need to be over dramatic.I do not think Torquay will die,just decline into the conference area 2,Wonderfull facts(I take it they are correct,I do not have the time to recherch,I have a life),but unfortunatly these figures are all in the past,I am talking about the future.3,yep its true we have not been in the conference south,what I am saying is would we ever get out of the conference,last time we had a manager with a lot of conference knowledge and a budget that made us a BIG club in that division,would that happen again?4,Your ideas on lottery winners are truely bizzare,I must ask Dave Wheelan, Mr Abramavitch (sorry for the miss spelling) and the guy who owns the JacksonvilleJaguars who bought fulham let alone the arab owners of manchester city if one, they have a couple of bob more than our beloved chairperson and why they did not take the wonderfull opertunity of picking up Torquay United,perhaps its because all three clubs have massive potential ,in areas of great population,and in three cases are in the premier division,5,I am not an entreprenure but I dont drive a crap car and have a have decent house,you might want to appologise to the Hele village comunity on your slur about where they live,my point is I would like to see any of the board members,good loyal torquay supporters all,pitch the club in the Dragons den,I wonder how many would invest?.6,I agree there where no motorways in the last 100 years,again history,what you can not dipute is that we are a long way from the football world so every other week we set off on a very long journey to play an away match let alone tryingto attract players to the area.7,Who heard of Sky in the 50s or 60s,get real,on a cold ,wet,saturday or evening when there is football,rugby ect on the tele only the diehard supporters will come out ,look at yesterday,1800 fans!.8,Once again I bow to your factual knowledge but my point is how much longer will these clubs survive and if they do great, but I suspect its because where they live and they can attract players and their running costs are far less than ours.So in essance you have not countered any of my reasons and far from being insane i count my selve a realiste,if I where you I would get my head out of the sand or you might miss your tea.