Paul Buckles Head

[ferrarilover]

Ok. agree about Lathrope, but he is equally as weak as Eunan, so Manse still has to do all the D cover.

Matt.

[Fonda]

Ok. agree about Lathrope, but he is equally as weak as Eunan, so Manse still has to do all the D cover.

Matt.

I'm not sure that he is. I saw the reserve game last week, and whilst not much of a physical presence, he does like a tackle.

I guess we'll never know either way, becasue Wroe has reached the 'untouchable' status within the team structure...

[tommyg]

The reason Wroe is undroppable is because we have no adequate replacement. He has been poor creatively, but is still a decent player at this level. Let's not write him off completely. He's going through a bad patch. A spell on the sidelines would do him good, but O'Kane isn't a natural successor to that position and nobody has seen enough of Lathrope to suggest he could partner Mansell.

As for the formation, it's obvious we need to revert back the traditional 4-4-2 which served us so well in August. The drawback is where do you fit O'Kane in that system? He's a level above most of his team-mates and a favourite of mine, but he didn't start in any of four league wins. Unfortunately, unless you play him in a wide position, you may have to sacrifice O'Kane for the sake of the team. It would be harsh because he doesn't deserve to be dropped, but we must think of the bigger picture and get back to the basics that elevated us to the top of the table.

[Fonda]

The reason Wroe is undroppable is because we have no adequate replacement. He has been poor creatively, but is still a decent player at this level. Let's not write him off completely. He's going through a bad patch. A spell on the sidelines would do him good, but O'Kane isn't a natural successor to that position and nobody has seen enough of Lathrope to suggest he could partner Mansell.

As for the formation, it's obvious we need to revert back the traditional 4-4-2 which served us so well in August. The drawback is where do you fit O'Kane in that system? He's a level above most of his team-mates and a favourite of mine, but he didn't start in any of four league wins. Unfortunately, unless you play him in a wide position, you may have to sacrifice O'Kane for the sake of the team. It would be harsh because he doesn't deserve to be dropped, but we must think of the bigger picture and get back to the basics that elevated us to the top of the table.

I agree. As an individual, O'Kane is the most talented footballer in the squad. Unfortunately, as i alluded to at the beginning of the season, it's very difficult to find a position for him in the side. I'm afraid if Bucks isn't convinced enough to play him wide, he'll have to leave him out. Because as good as he is, this formation just isn't working.

[Jerry]

What's wrong with 3 in midfield? Eunan with 2 "minders", that way we get the benefit of Eunans football brain and ability to pick a pass but still remain solid. Obviously this creates a lack of width, but if Senda can reach a decent level of fitness he could provide this as an old fashioned overlapping full back. (harsh to drop Robbo, but he's never going to provide an attacking threat).

Alternatively, 3 centre halves with wing backs would also allow 2 defensive midfielders + Eunan whilst keeping the width.

I know we all want to see less messing with the formation but i feel we have to find a way to utilise Eunans talents. He is a class above this division, we just need to fit him into the side somehow.

[Fonda]

Yep, i'd suggested something similar on another forum. The obviously drawback is the lack of width, but something like this could work...

--------Wayno----------Manse---------Wroe
--------------------------Okane
-----------------Zebs-------------Benyon

Senda and Nicho couild potentially provide the width, but it would require a great deal of running for them two.

I'm just not sure another new formation is a great idea. We were winning games by playing a simple 4-4-2. These are League 2 players, and perhaps simplicity is the key.

[JamieE]

Clearly Buckle wants O'Kane in the team as do most of us, but in behind a striker isn't the best way to do it, especially at home.

We were doing so well with 4-4-2, even in the games against Accrington and Macclesfield where from the start Zebs was up front and we created chances. We need to go back to basics. These players thrived under the responsibilty of just doing a job in a traditional formation with a solid defence. That's how football at this level should be played, and the most frustrating thing is it was!

Eunan O'Kane is the problem. He is a player who would do well when popping up in pockets of space on the pitch and that is what we tried to do yesterday. In Buckle's defence, the 4-2-3-1 we played for most of yesterday is something that I am glad we tried but it was the wrong time. We were doing well and should have kept to the winning formula. Save the tinkering for a plan B when we are struggling.

I'm not convinced O'Kane can't play in a 4-4-2. Technical, tricky players who would ideally play behind the striker(s) have thrived from playing on the left wing and cutting in. Joe Cole is one of the most high profile examples, but one maybe more relevant is Adam Lallana at Southampton. He played a season in behind a lone striker in a 4-5-1 the season they got relegated from the CCC. In League 1 he is now playing on the left wing, scored 20 goals last season cutting in from the wing and linking with the strikers whilst also staying wide and providing crosses. He's one of, if not their best, player. I feel O'Kane could really make the left wing his own - he's two footed with decent pace, an excellent passer and crosser and I'm sure he'd score goals.

Zebs---Mansell---Wroe---O'Kane

----------Benyon---Kee

...is what I'd like to see on Saturday if a centre midfielder isn't signed on loan.

[Dave]

I think we as fans need to get this in some sort of perspective,remember who we are not arsenal nor man.u or chelsea ,torquay united.

Our clubs does not have an endless pot of money,or enough fans,and 50% of the fans we have got are a passionless waste of space,expectations once again rose above reality,yes we had a good finish to last season,yes we had a good start to this season,were we ever a promotion team?..no,said before the season and after 4 games ,and i still believe we are a 8-10 th place side.,a marked improvement,which as a fan i will be happy with..because i have never lost sight of who we are.

On the nickey wroe debate,i agree with fonda,o'kane is not the answer in a 4-4-2 central midfield role,we would be over run,also i believe wroe and mansell are more efective in a 4-4-2 line,as they were playing when we wre winning,playing 4-4-2.

Its to early to be jumping on buckle's back,and it would not suprise me one bit,to see him revert to 4-4-2 tuesday,the only mistake i think he made yesterday,was bringing in senda,who does not look ready for first team action,robbo has being playing well at right back,to me he should have just brought in charnock.

I would also like to see macklin in for stevens,macklin has pace to burn,and physical presence,not scared to have ashot either,to me he is worth his chance.

[Fonda]

Zebs---Mansell---Wroe---O'Kane

----------Benyon---Kee

I'm inclined to agree a return to 4-4-2 would be sensible. And i think Eunan does deserve a chance to show that he can play wide. I'm not sure i'd go with Kee yet though. I'm convinced he'll prove an excellent signing in time, but i'm not sure he warrants selection yet. I'd be tempted with a slight modifictaion...

Wayno---Manse---Wroe---O'Kane

----------Zebs----Benners

[Jerry]

I'm inclined to agree a return to 4-4-2 would be sensible. And i think Eunan does deserve a chance to show that he can play wide. I'm not sure i'd go with Kee yet though. I'm convinced he'll prove an excellent signing in time, but i'm not sure he warrants selection yet. I'd be tempted with a slight modifictaion...

Wayno---Manse---Wroe---O'Kane

----------Zebs----Benners

You could also argue that Wayno isn't ready yet either. He hasn't looked fit to me since he came back. I think we have to give Kee a run in the side, tell him he is starting the next 4 games to take some pressure off and see what he can do.

[Dave]

"simplicity is the key" the point i was making above was we are not man.u not just in terms of money and fanbase,also in quality of players aswell.

We do not need 3-1-3-1-2,or christmass tree,diamond or any other weird and wonder full formations,that serve people so well on football manager games,just plain simple old 4-4-2 it what our player's are capable of playing,and as proved they can play it very well.

On the point of o'kane out wide,acually why not? he played there for colraine,was very effective scoring a few goals along the way.

[Fonda]

You could also argue that Wayno isn't ready yet either. He hasn't looked fit to me since he came back. I think we have to give Kee a run in the side, tell him he is starting the next 4 games to take some pressure off and see what he can do.

I've seen Wayno playing centre-midfield, in the hole and at right back since he came back into the team. I'm sure he'd perform better with a run on the right-wing.

There's little point telling Kee he's going to play the next 4 games, if doubt remains about his partnership with Benyon. And i think the jury is still out on that. They both seem to want to play in the same areas to me.

If Carlisle isn't fit, sure play Kee. But if Wayno is considered fit, he should be in our first 11 for me. On the wing.

[BlueYellow]

I wonder if the Accrington game ought to have been enough to realise that the 4-5-1 isn't an effective attacking formation? And perhaps the Stevenage game could have confirmed that for him?

We appeared to start 4-4-2 yesterday, created 3 decent chances in the first 10 minutes, fell behind to a sucker punch and then decided to resort to 4-5-1. It's unecessarily cautious.

For once Fonda, and probaly for the last time,I agree with you. Yes he should have noticed after the accrington, he has tried something new, it didn't work, so lets move on.

[ferrarilover]

I don't wish to labour the point, but the answer to 4-4-2 with O'Kane is to drop Wroe. I don't see a downside. We simply ask that Manse works a little harder and that EoK gets stuck in. I don't see Nicky Wroe making dozens of tackles in a match, this is simply something else he doesn't do well.

Matt.

[Fonda]

For once Fonda, and probaly for the last time,I agree with you. Yes he should have noticed after the accrington, he has tried something new, it didn't work, so lets move on.

Charmed, i'm sure.