Is Ling the real thing ???

[AustrianAndyGull]

No way Dave, i'm not one of these 'fans' who has a second team or turns up to a league 1 or 2 match with his dad wearing a Man U shirt. I do have another team but obviously they play in a different country so that doesn't technically count towards this argument. :na:

No i'm Torquay and don't care about anyone else.

On the Wenger point though i just think that he doesn't have the drive, grit or ruthlessness of Fergie and it is now showing big time. He has accepted failure as success and it annoys me and he just thinks his teams should play like Barcelona all the time. The thing is for all Barcas prettiness they have a Busquets and a Pique, they have doggedness which has lacked at Arsenal since the days of Bould, Petit, Viera, Adams etc, he just needs some knuckledraggers to compliment the fancy stuff and his team will evolve. All he does now is have 11 players fannying around with it, one or two show promise because they are allowed to do this and when they realise there is nobody strong enough to turn the team into winners they jump ship to a 'bigger' club like Man U or City. To me the problem at Arsenal is obvious, it's been obvious for many years now to Arsenal fans and myself and others and it just annoys me that someone like Wenger is getting paid loads for doing a job where he is failing. Give it to someone else to have a crack at.

[gullintwoplaces]

Its part and parcel of football and Martin Ling as a former player and Manager of three clubs should know that and accept it, moaning that is not abuse, it happens everywhere, not sure why some seem to think Torquay is a club all of its own when it comes to moaning frustrated fans.

Last season I even heard a number of Man.U fans suggest S-A-F should retire, and more than a few Arsenal fans wanting Wenger to be sacked, think overall us Torquays aren't that bad and Lingy has the support of the overwhelming majority.

I agree, Torquay fans are not the worst. Argyle and Oxford fans are far worse moaners, with deluded "big club" syndrome driving a sizeable number of their fans to expect and demand success week after week, reality escaping their self delusion. The Torquay fans that are like this, however, do drive me mad, and there are a few in Bristow's bench and on the pop side. I can only describe them as imbeciles. And I don't want Brucie coming on here and claiming that they have paid their money and have the right to moan. I shop in Sainsburys sometimes, but that doesn't give me the right to have a go at their store manager every time I go there.

[ROADRUNNER]

pop side gets bad at times, so many people over there that should be football managers, makes me angry, some people havent got a clue, morons!

[AustrianAndyGull]

I agree, Torquay fans are not the worst. Argyle and Oxford fans are far worse moaners, with deluded "big club" syndrome driving a sizeable number of their fans to expect and demand success week after week, reality escaping their self delusion. The Torquay fans that are like this, however, do drive me mad, and there are a few in Bristow's bench and on the pop side. I can only describe them as imbeciles. And I don't want Brucie coming on here and claiming that they have paid their money and have the right to moan. I shop in Sainsburys sometimes, but that doesn't give me the right to have a go at their store manager every time I go there.

[/quote]

If you buy a bottle of milk each week and on many occasions it is off it does.

[gullintwoplaces]

If you buy a bottle of milk each week and on many occasions it is off it does.

I wouldn't say that watching the Gulls is like buying off milk, at the moment it is more like buying a tough steak, edible and sometimes a bit tasty, but leaving you frustrated as you prefer a nice tender fillet steak. Apologies to the veggies (on second thoughts I will not apologise to the bearded sandal wearers, even though I live in Totnes now).

[AustrianAndyGull]

[Gullscorer]

Just heard that Rotherham have signed Swindon's (and ex-Gillingham) Luke Rooney on a two month loan. A few fans, in view of recent indifferent form at Torquay, may be calling for new faces at Plainmoor now, within our budgetary constraints. But this would simply be dealing with symptoms rather than the problem itself.

Yes, we may need new faces after the New Year if poor form in certain areas continues, or if we suffer too many injuries or suspensions, but in the meantime the solution to any problem lies within the current squad and their manager, in whom I have every confidence. They may not be scoring many goals at present, they may not be playing completely as a team as they would wish, but they're not playing that badly, and they have the ability, talent, know-how and determination to achieve better results.

Once it all clicks together, I can see them going on a decent run next year which could yet result in an exciting finish to the season. And right now I can think of few managers better fitted and able to lead them than Martin Ling. After all, if you look at Bristol Rovers for example, and the number of managers they have tried in recent seasons, and look at their current league position, you will realise how fortunate we are at Plainmoor. We should count our blessings..

[AustrianAndyGull]

Just want to praise Martin for the way he conducts himself and for what he has done for the club. Just because i criticise his playing style and what i perceive as lack of ambition doesn't mean to say that i don't think he a good man and a good manager. I appreciate all he has done for us , especially in steadying the ship in grand style after THAT summer of upheaval. Now is the time for him to stop steadying and start steering but sadly i fear that he has lost the treasure map and the good ship Torquay United is drifting towards choppy waters with little chance of discovering what lies hidden.

He IS inexperienced and we shouldn't forget that, all i'm trying to do really is get the message across that i'm not a total arsehole who doesn't try to take into account the bigger picture , i don't complain for my own pleasure, i do it because a situation has encouraged me to do so and i try understand other peoples viewpoints and use the information in them to help me make a post. If i still feel really annoyed and i believe i am being fair and just then i'll put that complaint out there but as many of you have also seen, i do give praise and thanks on a regular basis also. I don't think ANYONE is against Martin and if i'm honest you would be a total mushroomhead if you were considering what he has achieved. The second season syndrome has kicked in and we are getting a tatse of what football is to come and many don't like it and that is perfectly reasonable whatever level you're at. We are like the Sunderland of league 2, create little, have Rene as our Fletcher and are tight at the back. The wearsiders have seen fluent attacking football when O'Neill first took over and he guided them to safety in fine style, we saw some good stuff last season when we ripped apart Burton and Crewe and others. For some reason O'Neill and Ling have somehow had a brief rendezvous in Pete & Bernies philosophical footballing steakhouse, had a 12oz rump with onion rings, a pint of Vaux and a chat about this season and they have both decided to approach the game like Garry Kasparov.

That is their prerogative but we can't progress like this. For now Martin is punching above his weight and doing a cracking job and i have to congratulate him for this. I'm not going to lie and hide, i'm deeply unhappy with how we play and i feel it's not necessary and will eventually lead to a drop in attendances but on paper ie the league table, we are bang in there and whatever way he has chosen to do it, at the moment he IS still doing it so full credit.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Also if i may add that on a purely football orientated basis, Martin is doing an incredible job and not many people could come in a do a better one in similar circumstances. On an entertainment and value for money basis he is relegation fodder and somehow the gap between the two has to become closer. That's the reality. Football is not only a passionate religion for many but it is also a day out for people, the family and a form of entertainment. Of course many people will say that 'real fans' will go regardless and i mostly agree with this, however, the combination of restricted financial economics and atrocious football most weeks mean that many will choose to stay away and on this particular occasion i can't really blame them.

[ROADRUNNER]

yep and the table dont lie, but i see what your saying austrian.

[tktufc91]

[/quote] I sit behind Lingy in the Bench and it's literally two blokes, both VERY vocal. One guy seems to be blind (not being mean here, he actually has a white stick), listens to the radio commentary on headphones and blurts out stuff that he's heard from the commentators and the other guy, who's even more vocal, doesn't miss an opportunity to slate Ling and/or the players. When Rene was subbed during the Morecambe game, he actually shouted out, "what's happened to all the goals, Rene?", very loudly. Most of those of us sat around him rounded on him and told him he was a prat and to shut up. I can appreciate that Lingy gets a bit rattled by the heckles but, trust me, it's just a couple of guys who are very loud. They also gave a lot of stick to Billy Bodin during the Harrogate match.[/quote]

The first person you describe sounds a lot like my Grandpa. He uses the clubs commentary as he is pretty much blind. He'll moan at anything, even if we are winning 5-0, he'll find something to criticise. I hope it's not him though....

How far back are you from the dugouts? I can find out if its him as I know how many rows back he sits.

[AustrianAndyGull]

The evidence is in the matchday threads. If you look back at general reports of ALL the games bar the win at Wimbledon , the loss at Barnet and the win at home to Gillingham in every single one of them most people say the same thing. Boring, ineffective, sterile, started well but then were under pressure blah blah blah. Even the home wins against Morecambe and Accrington, ALL bar those three. What is unusual about those three games? We won two of them playing attacking football and should have won the other. Every other game played this season has had similar responses from people saying we were awful. Maybe Martin should read them and then try attacking at York, the stats say we generate more points attacking than defending i think.

[Plymouth Gull]

ALL, including games where we played Cheltenham (in stages), Rochdale, Accrington, Wimbledon, Barnet, Gills (to an extent) off the park?

[stevegull]

An abject first half against Aldershot was backed up with a tremendous second half performance. That half of football must have been the best we have played this season.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Before that though we were 3-0 down AT HOME to a club at the bottom of the league. When that happens what are you supposed to do other than say f*ck it, lets just go for it and see what happens. If we drew 4-4 against Southend would you be saying the same. We still went 3-0 down at half time and why?

I think you know the answer to that.