SEMI-PRO/PART TIME SQUAD PLAYERS?

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chunkygull
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SEMI-PRO/PART TIME SQUAD PLAYERS?

Post by chunkygull »

Wodger of Awabia made a small comment but a very good point on the Hargreaves thread about this subject and I elaborated in a post after, and I have to say Im a bit disappointed guys, I was expecting a tirade of stick,arguement, reasons against and general abuse, being told I know nothing about football and we just cant do it, yadda yadda yadda,blah blah blah. So all I can think is either the posts got missed, people agree with the sentiment or nobody gives a toss either way.

Because managers like to have such big squads now compared to the past and the going rate of pay that many lower league full time pro players seem to want is absolutely ridiculous and obscene, surely replacing a few full time bench warmers or squad numbers with 2 or 3 decent part timers/semi pros would be a viable financial option seeing as we are now destined to become an established non league club for the forseeable future.

How much money would part timers be on in comparison to our lowest earning full timers I dont know but if we could save a bit of money on the squad in general and invest a bit more in a few key positions establishing a good mixture of youth and experience whilst at least trying to create a decent spine for the team surely it is an idea worth exploring.

This is from the Hargreaves thread -
wodger of awabia » Yesterday, 15:00
Yes, keep the youngsters, dump the dead wood, and even sign a few part timers that are interested in winning games, playing football & securing a full time contract for themselves. IMVHO.
by chunkygull » Yesterday, 22:02

Absolutely agree with this! This is something I have thought about for quite some time. Hopefully there would never be a need for the club to go part time, but I see no reason as to why we cant use part time/semi-pro players to fill some squad places as opposed to having quite a few so-called full time professionals on a hefty wedge of money, not giving good value, not pulling their weight, not breaking into the first team and being a drain on the club.

Many who feel they are in the know have commented on club finances, how much some of our players earn, how much on average professional footballers in league 2/conference earn or what the going rate is. The club needs to save money and the standard some of the so-called professional footballers we have attracted in recent times has been poor. Are all the available full time pros out there absolutely that much better than some part time players. Weighing up the financial implications having passengers in the squad or paying somebody less for doing the same thing its surely a move worth looking at. Would it really be a big difference in quality or the teams chances to have a part time player who is on a less money coming off the bench during a game, giving it their all for the last twenty minutes or do we keep on a dis-interested so-called pro who you might get a performance out of and he gets hundreds of pounds more a week for doing pretty much the same thing. Most footballers only work part time hours anyway dont they.

Personally there have been many players at this club down the years who come on lets face it havent really been good enough to be called pro footballers and should be done under the trade description act. So many you look at and think how on earth are they a pro. There must be some semi-pro players out there I suspect who are probably better than some of the crap we have had in recent times.

Watching some early round FA cup games this year of league 2 clubs vs part time clubs, to be honest there wasnt much in it, granted a lot of part time players were probably playing out of their skin but there are a few rough diamonds in there that being attached to a full time pro club would enhance their talent and they would at least be good enough squad players. In the games I saw there wasnt really much in it when it came to skill or technique it is only really near the end of these types of matches that the real tell is the fitness levels, this is where the difference between semi and full shows, thats all. So, would a player coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes at a fraction of the cost and doing the same job be so bad?

Some points have been made on here in recent past that some very decent players dont become full time pros because they can earn more working a normal job and playing part time, why dont we use players like this? Some have also stated that the difference in quality of football or footballers from conference to the next few leagues down which are often part timers isnt that big, so why not use a few of these part-timers in our squad to save some money and help us live within our means and cut our cloth accordingly. Is it really too much of a gamble, would it really be that bad, is it just football snobbery not to try it?

With the ridiculous money that even conference and league 2 footballers earn now and yes I have read on here what the going rate is (outrageous) and some of ours are supposedly on what is considered peanuts in comparison (still too bloody much), but if it puts the club in financial straits it just isnt worth it and I would rather TUFC didnt pay that sort of money and tried something else. It has to change, somethings got to give and I cant see why we cant at least look at a couple of part timers as an option. When you look at the amount of money we have chucked down the drain on players who have barely given part time service even when fit it must be worth considering.
So what do you fellow supporters think is the idea abhorrent and sacrilege or as we dont have the resources and thanks to seeing the drain that certain so called full time pros have put on the club in recent times is it a natural progression and inevitable. It cant hurt that much surely as we have loads of players down the years who werent really deserving of being professional anyway. There must be some semi pros out there that we could use, who could at least give a decent performance and do a job for us in a game without breaking the bank.
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Post by kevgull »

With the money being sloshed around in the Leagues in the next couple of seasons, the wage gap is going to turn into a chasm, compared to an average Conference budget.

At present we do not have an investor willing to put in the extra money required, crowds are reported to be down 20% from last year and falling. Add the fact that any new players are reluctant to move down to the bay unless there is a decent offer, this puts us in No Mans Land, if we want all Profesional squad.

Going forward we need experience, healthy professionals in each position, backed up with our youth / 6 month contracts / pay as you play.
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Post by Dave »

The current financial climate has meant that managers below the premiership can not and are not allowed by their respective boards to have big squads whether the manager likes it or not. Only yesterday on s-s-n they were having a debate on the effect loan players were having on the promotion race for the premiership, with a significant percentage of goals being scored for the clubs chasing promotion by loan players.

Chunks wouldn't be to concerned over the lack of response, I think you've just hit on a reality that many of us dread to think about, however most of us have come to realise is now a possibility, in fact, is it the way forward, to be honest some might say our club has already gone down that road by the use of non-contract players.

For me, I really do not see the point in the club wasting any more of it's time promoting up youngsters from the youth set up who simply are not good enough, and then sending them on loan to Bideford or where ever, if there's none in the current crop, take it on the chin release them all and move on to the next group.

I must admit, I'm no fan of the loan market, however I've come to realise this could be the way forward, my suggestion be to trim the squad right back, even to 12-13, top the squad up and try and add the quality via the loan market.
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Post by Gulliball »

Semi-pro football works well when you are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of people and you have a wide pool to search through. Accrington and Dagenham have done this well even in full time football, offering low money but a chance to build a career, to local players. If we were based in the North-West or London then it might be a more helpful source of players.

As it is, anyone playing part-time for Torquay is going to have to be based somewhere within about a one hour circle, giving you to Plymouth and Exeter but not a lot further. Are there are non-league clubs in this area with players good enough to play in L2, or the top end of the Conference? if there are, then it would suit everyone, but I suspect there simply aren't enough players of the required standard close to Torquay to make it a viable model for us to use.

For us to take someone from part-time football, say as we did with Eunan O'Kane, we pretty much have to offer them a full time contract or it's not worth it financially for them to move down to the south west.
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Post by Neal »

Gulliball wrote:Semi-pro football works well when you are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of people and you have a wide pool to search through. Accrington and Dagenham have done this well even in full time football, offering low money but a chance to build a career, to local players. If we were based in the North-West or London then it might be a more helpful source of players.

As it is, anyone playing part-time for Torquay is going to have to be based somewhere within about a one hour circle, giving you to Plymouth and Exeter but not a lot further. Are there are non-league clubs in this area with players good enough to play in L2, or the top end of the Conference? if there are, then it would suit everyone, but I suspect there simply aren't enough players of the required standard close to Torquay to make it a viable model for us to use.

For us to take someone from part-time football, say as we did with Eunan O'Kane, we pretty much have to offer them a full time contract or it's not worth it financially for them to move down to the south west.
Absolutely. At Basingstoke a lot of the players live in London and have other jobs so they have a massive area to pull from. We unfortunately have 180deg of Sea, you aint gonna get a lot there!
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Post by chunkygull »

Well, theres a relief, thanks chaps, I thought I was going to get a right hammering for mentioning the subject, but a very good well balanced set of points made here.

In some ways we have almost gone down this sort of route by having players on a non contract - pay as you play - expenses only basis recently. I do understand the problem of not having much of a catchment area, therefore a shallow talent pool, but is there realy not 1 or 2 players in the region or locality we could at least give a shot to. Im only thinking of topping up the squad and at best coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes. We have had a squad with quite a few unused or barely used players in recent times and lets face it some real $h1te. Would it really hurt to have a few of the top local/regional players on the books, they couldnt be any worse than some of the charlatans we have had here.

Didnt this used to be a usual practice many years ago and Im sure it was something looked at during the Bateson era where the club had some top local talent on a sort of reserve list.
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Post by supergulls »

I think a lot of people need to get a reality check as there are numerous part time clubs that pay a majority of their players more than what some of ours are on. The exception being the players that were on contracts awarded by Knilly. Most of the players signed this year could earn the same being part time but all players want to remain a full time pro.
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Post by Trojan 67 »

chunkygull wrote:
Would it really hurt to have a few of the top local/regional players on the books, they couldnt be any worse than some of the charlatans we have had here. Didnt this used to be a usual practice many years ago
That would be back in the days of "Torquay United A". From there it was progression into "Torquay United Reserves". If you had real talent you went on to play for Torquay United in the Football League.

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Post by wodger of awabia »

Gulliball wrote:Semi-pro football works well when you are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of people and you have a wide pool to search through. Accrington and Dagenham have done this well even in full time football, offering low money but a chance to build a career, to local players. If we were based in the North-West or London then it might be a more helpful source of players.

As it is, anyone playing part-time for Torquay is going to have to be based somewhere within about a one hour circle, giving you to Plymouth and Exeter but not a lot further. Are there are non-league clubs in this area with players good enough to play in L2, or the top end of the Conference? if there are, then it would suit everyone, but I suspect there simply aren't enough players of the required standard close to Torquay to make it a viable model for us to use.

For us to take someone from part-time football, say as we did with Eunan O'Kane, we pretty much have to offer them a full time contract or it's not worth it financially for them to move down to the south west.
Yes, as I mentioned on another thread a few weeks ago the training facilities are in the wrong location. Dump the white elephant Hogwarts training ground, & re locate to just south of Birmingham, M5/M6/M40. The only thing ( except on match days ) that needs to be at Plainmoor is the shop and a couple of offices. The pub & catering are stand alone from training in any case.

The advantages are;
Players don't need to move to play for TQY
Hardly any over night stops in hotels to pay for.
Vast numbers of local talent for the youth set up.
Loan players could be available from West Mids. clubs
Talented part time players should be easy to attract
It could even be possible to share (rent) training facilities, & ancillary staff from one of the local clubs.

The disadvantage is that there is a three hour journey to Plainmoor on match days, & the manager can only be given a boll#cking over the phone.
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Post by wivelgull »

Actually, Mr. Wodger's comment makes a lot of sense.
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