Home-grown players

[Gullscorer]

There were five of them in Exeter City's team against Accrington yesterday, according to the Football League Show. The Gulls are also supposed to have a youth development scheme, yet how many of our young players really get a chance to break through? It seems some of them get to the subs' bench, with an occasional first team appearance, or are loaned out or are dissipated eventually into non-league obscurity, and the rest are let go to disappear into the amateur game. Of course our current league position doesn't help, which requires proven talented or experienced professionals in games which don't allow for the extra risks involved in introducing youngsters who might otherwise be deemed ready for first team experience. If we were in Exeter's position in the table, we might well have more home-grown players in the team. Or would we..?? Who would or could we bring in..??

[Southampton Gull]

It's not a fair comparison, their Youth system has been producing good players for a number of years. If given enough time we can start to do the same.

[Gullscorer]

It's not a fair comparison, their Youth system has been producing good players for a number of years. If given enough time we can start to do the same.

The current Torquay United club has been in existence since 1921, almost as long as Exeter City. How much more time do we need..??

[usagullmichigan]

The current Torquay United club has been in existence since 1921, almost as long as Exeter City. How much more time do we need..??

Not the youth system. The youth system was only restarted a few years ago.

[Sunnysideup]

The current Torquay United club has been in existence since 1921, almost as long as Exeter City. How much more time do we need..??

The youth system was cancelled by Mike Bateson as a cost saving measure. It was then restarted by the current board about 5 years ago. It takes around 8 to 10 years to start producing home grown players from scratch. Those that have featured so far are those that have left other clubs, usually because they dont show the required ability/progression.

[Dave]

Our youth development scheme was only re-started in 2007, since great improvements have been made especially with the younger age groups, in the early days many of our academy teams were losing by 10 goals + we were once beaten at U8'S 57-0 by Exeter, and we often played 11 a side football with 2 mini soccer goals tied together, thankfully those days are long gone. Our academy teams are very competitive now, and a few U16'S have been making the bench for the youth team, so we're getting there.

Couple of seasons ago I read an interview by Goeff Harrop where by he critized English clubs for over looking small players, I nearly chocked on my drink when I read that, that's exactly what happens at Torquay, fact, and one area where Exeter are better than us. In fact whilst down at Stoke Gabriel fc last week, bumped into someone I know who's son was released by Torquay as a U14, his son was told at his review that he didn't fit the size requirement at Torquay, and told to try his luck at Exeter because they like them short up there, you're joking I said. No was the answer that's what was said.

That's my only complaint we don't seem to be bringing no where near enough players from our academy through into the youth team compared to Exeter and on to be 1st year pro's, we do seem obsessed with size, where they don't, our youth team is packed full of lads released by bigger London and Northern based clubs and Cyprus born , so again it depends on what we mean by home grown, where Exeter seem to be bringing through players Devon born, so the talent is there.

There is a lad I know who is a winger come forward released by Torquay, 16 years 5 months old he is already playing S-D-L Premier division football and scoring goals, what does that say about his potential as a player/late developer, he should still be on our books.

[Dave]

The youth system was cancelled by Mike Bateson as a cost saving measure. It was then restarted by the current board about 5 years ago. It takes around 8 to 10 years to start producing home grown players from scratch. Those that have featured so far are those that have left other clubs, usually because they dont show the required ability/progression.

As said in my reply was started before this board took over, in fact the only good thing Chris Roberts did for the club.

[hector]

Agree with those, who say it is unfair to make comparisons. Exeter's has been running for years - is well established and has seen plenty of players leave for decent careers higher up the leagues.

Other than the five they had yesterday, they have others, notably Jamie Reid, an ardent Torquay fan, who would be wearing yellow had it not been for Mike Bateson closing the youth system down. Others like Dan Gosling may have come to Torquay, rather than Plymouth had a youth system been running.

In fact there was a time when you could pick 4 or 5 players from a Torquay team, who had graduated from the youth team e.g. Chris Curran, Darren Moore, Paul Hall, Duane Darby and others plus a few years later, Bedeau, Thomas and Gregg. Problem there was they were all from the midlands and the club really lost out when John James left for Plymouth Argyle and that was probably the death knell for the youth system because under Richard Hancox, it never really moved on.

It would be great to have some home-grown players. The likes of Halpin, Yeoman etc, have flattered to deceive, really but it will take some time to get the better players through.

[Jeff]

Agree with those, who say it is unfair to make comparisons. Exeter's has been running for years - is well established and has seen plenty of players leave for decent careers higher up the leagues.

Other than the five they had yesterday, they have others, notably Jamie Reid, an ardent Torquay fan, who would be wearing yellow had it not been for Mike Bateson closing the youth system down. Others like Dan Gosling may have come to Torquay, rather than Plymouth had a youth system been running.

In fact there was a time when you could pick 4 or 5 players from a Torquay team, who had graduated from the youth team e.g. Chris Curran, Darren Moore, Paul Hall, Duane Darby and others plus a few years later, Bedeau, Thomas and Gregg. Problem there was they were all from the midlands and the club really lost out when John James left for Plymouth Argyle and that was probably the death knell for the youth system because under Richard Hancox, it never really moved on.

It would be great to have some home-grown players. The likes of Halpin, Yeoman etc, have flattered to deceive, really but it will take some time to get the better players through.

To somewhat reiterate the same point, Halpin and Yeoman never really had much hope as they came to us aged 15 or so - so you have to ask, why were they not picked up by someone else if they had what it takes? Probably because they never did, really.

Now though, theoretically some of our current 16-year olds in the youth team could have started with the club aged 10 and had coaching and mentoring since then. They might stand half a chance of making the grade, but realistically it'll probably take another generation (i.e. the current under-10's side!) until we really have a chance of a starlet on our hands.

[Dave]

I know your talking in theory Jeff, but stark reality is our current U16 only has 2 players I can think of that are truly local and have been with the academy for a while, that's a keeper from Torquay and a centre back from Kingsteignton , the lad who was going to Villa is from Cornwall as well I believe, the rest are also from Cornwall, Plymouth, Somerset, Cyprus and beyond, and haven't been with our club for that long.

Over the last 6 years as said we haven't brought many players through our academy, Yoeman came through that route, Halpin didn't, he came from the Paignton college scheme and I believe is Cornwall, what's going to change in the next 6 years, why all of sudden is a player going to come through from our U10, when there seems to be no players left from the U10 squad that was here 6 years ago. The turnover of players, has over the years been to high, the only thing that can or will change it, is if our academy are prepared to start keeping hold of some of these players and working with them, one other problem, academy's do not have U15 teams, so at the end of the season a squad of 20 U14'S will be culled, you will be lucky if 10 of them gain places in next seasons U16 squad and unlike big clubs who can keep players in funded development/performance centres we can not.

Just looked through our youth team profiles, there is only one player from Torquay, the rest are mainly from London or Ireland, if we look in 6 years time at our youth team profiles will the picture of changed, will it be full of local lads, sorry, no, I don't think it will be, it's a real shame, but it's likely local talent will be over looked for years to come.

[PhilGull]

Our youth development scheme was only re-started in 2007, since great improvements have been made especially with the younger age groups, in the early days many of our academy teams were losing by 10 goals + we were once beaten at U8'S 57-0 by Exeter, and we often played 11 a side football with 2 mini soccer goals tied together, thankfully those days are long gone. Our academy teams are very competitive now, and a few U16'S have been making the bench for the youth team, so we're getting there.

Couple of seasons ago I read an interview by Goeff Harrop where by he critized English clubs for over looking small players, I nearly chocked on my drink when I read that, that's exactly what happens at Torquay, fact, and one area where Exeter are better than us. In fact whilst down at Stoke Gabriel fc last week, bumped into someone I know who's son was released by Torquay as a U14, his son was told at his review that he didn't fit the size requirement at Torquay, and told to try his luck at Exeter because they like them short up there, you're joking I said. No was the answer that's what was said.

That's my only complaint we don't seem to be bringing no where near enough players from our academy through into the youth team compared to Exeter and on to be 1st year pro's, we do seem obsessed with size, where they don't, our youth team is packed full of lads released by bigger London and Northern based clubs and Cyprus born , so again it depends on what we mean by home grown, where Exeter seem to be bringing through players Devon born, so the talent is there.

There is a lad I know who is a winger come forward released by Torquay, 16 years 5 months old he is already playing S-D-L Premier division football and scoring goals, what does that say about his potential as a player/late developer, he should still be on our books.

This is what annoys me when people are talking about the England team. They talk about coaching and having English players in the Premier League. The biggest problem is the scouts in our game. I know a couple of guys who work in youth football and they both say the same. Every scout that turns up is only interested in those players who are either tall or quick, that is all. The theory being that they can be taught how to play football, whereas short, slow but technically superior players cannot be taught to grow. Hence why Crouch and Walcott have international caps, neither actually have any natural talent.
There's also the racism problem. It's only ever black or white players that get scouted. Despite there being massive interest in football among other communities, especially the Turkish kids, they never get a look in.

[PhilGull]

And I'm not accusing anyone at Torquay of being racist. It seems to be endemically institutional within British football and is more obvious here where I am in London.

[Dave]

I think we will agree on most things on this subject, the F.A do have a lot of football for all initiatives going on, won't go to much into it as I've got myself into trouble before, however so many barriers to break down, and it can be a two way problem, with some groups not wanting to let football in.

I've worked in youth football for 8 years had various different football and non-football roles, with local clubs and a football development school, and you're right tall and quick, also despite what he may say in public, as said, our Mr Harrop is obsessed with big players as well, and I feel it's one of the reasons why we haven't as yet produced a gem from our 8-16 year old academy.

Whilst on the subject of size and this isn't just aimed at our club, it happens up and down the country, goalkeepers, they suffer more with height discrimination than any other position. Peter Shilton is a prime example, a keeper that took the no1 jersey with both club and country of Gordon Banks , haven't looked it up but sure Shilts went on to gain 109 caps with England. With the stigma in todays football about keepers being no good unless they are 6ft 2inch, Peter Shilton at a tad under 6ft dead, may not even make it, in football today.

I believe we have 2 keepers in our U16 squad both taller now than Shilton ever grow at his max height, so if a 16 year old Peter Shilton turned up for a trial with us, there is more than a good chance we wouldn't sign him, was does that tell us.

academy's up and down the country have a production line 6ft keepers who 95% will never make it, because they are not good enough and never were, it was their height and the belief from the academy they could be developed, and just as a number of smaller out field players are being over looked so are quite a few 5ft-10 to 6ft dead goalkeepers, and they just might of been the jewel in the crown.

I don't want to seem if I am hammering our youth set up, we only have certain amount of money and can only work with a certain amount young players, sadly a lot of local kids would be better off in development/performance centres of bigger clubs, they stand a better chance of being kept on and given every chance to develop, some do later than others.

[MidDevon]

The reality of youth systems is that a proffessional club will only have realistic hopes for 1 or possibly 2 players making it each season.

The rest of the squad is very much there to make up the numbers, not good enough to serious threaten even the reserves, but good enough to allow the 1 or 2 in with half a chance to flourish by playing alongside them.

The harsh reality of youth football is that 90% of each squad is being "used" to make up the numbers...

[ferrarilover]

Racism or just how things are? We're a white country, made up of 90% white people. That there are as many black or Asian or whatever as there are is remarkable given their relative rarity in society in general.

Have a look at the best leagues in the world. England, Spain, Portugal, Italy. All white(ish) countries. The J League or the Chinese Super League (full of 99.9% native Asian players) are both absolutely terrible.
A lot of the African nations have very good national sides and there are enough black Englishmen to account for the relative prevalence of those players.

Aside from in my local kebab shop, I can't remember the last time I saw a Turkish chap.

If 1/100 kids makes it in the pro game and 1/100 of those is Turkish or Greek or Chinese, then we're on a 1/10000 shot of one of them making it. There are, what, 1800 pros in England, so we're waiting for 5 complete cycles of the entire playing staff of the Football League before the maths tells us that we should have one of each.

I'm not saying that we're definitely not a nation of mental KKKists, but perhaps we're not?

Matt.