why do managers get great contracts?

[rooster]

I don't think its that simple really and most contracts are awarded on merit and experience which is a double edged sword, if you want experience then you have to pay for it. From their point of view it often involves relocation which doesn't come cheap and success generally involves renegotiation to avoid manger moving on etc. If a manager is successful then no-one seems to question what there being paid as long as there doing a good job. Im not saying they are not well paid but like any job it comes with its problems and as we are seeing at present it doesn't always go smoothly so they put up with a fair amour of grief at times which also impacts on their family which is totally unfair and unnecessary. As you say with so much competition would you do it without any guarantees, after all we all have bills etc to pay and your career could be cut short just after you relocated your family etc then what do you do..........i can see your point but just don't see it as simple as that.......

[DevonYellow]

I assume you are alluding to the contract Alan Knill was given.

It's worth remembering that he had just kept us up and was therefore a popular choice with many fans to get the job full time. He'd shown in Labadie and Chappell that he could attract good players on loan and was the board's first choice.

His bargaining position was strong and we also had to offer an attractive package to get him to move down here. 12 months on basic money wouldn't have been enough, nor fair to expect him to move his family down on.

In short I think the board offered the right package to get the man they wanted - which is effective recruitment.

[Neal]

I agree with Edd. And I dont agree you have to pay for experience, look where that has got us. Knills track records wasn't exactly perfect. Plus there are few if any managers with unblemished records.

What about this as a thought. Would Fergy keep up us from this position, or would say Hargreaves have a better chance. The players would probably jump through hoops for fergy I guess. But I'm not sure the probability would be much better under fergy to be honest.

I'm appalled by the contract when you compare to normal hard working people.

[DevonYellow]

So Sir Alex Ferguson the most successful manager in English football would have no better chance than Chris Hargreaves, who has no managerial experience, of keeping us up? I think even Chris Hargreaves would be smiling at that!

[Dave]

The job title 'professional football manger' Is by some way they most insecure job worldwide, in England alone were not at Christmas and manager sackings are nearly in double figures, in todays football world it's all about results and success today, not tomorrow or the next day, sometimes managers aren't given time to get their own ideas across, own players in place or even build from youth before there are sacked. That's why they have contracts, and must insist on some built in protection.

Chris Hargreaves is a good example for me, is he going to give his coaching role at Bournemouth, which I am sure he enjoys, to come down and take the TUFC managers job, on a 3 month £250-£500 a week prove yourself contract, I'll answer that for you, no.

This whole experience .v. inexperience thing is irrelevant to me, there is no guarantee regardless of whether you have Fergie or a level 1 youth coach take the job, that either will, or will not, be successful.

[Sunnysideup]

This is a simple numbers test.
92 clubs in the land means there are limted oppertunities for managers, so why dont clubs offer a min basic wage with a bonus for actually doing something?
I dont just mean us but ever lower club? How many times is it heard a manager is sacked and by 10am next day there are already 10+ applicants?
Surely supply and demand should work in the clubs favour?

Edd, dont want to piss on your bonfire but most managers are on a basic contract plus a bonus for either being in the top third/getting promoted/etc etc.
Rooster and DY have summed up the reasons quite well as it applies to us.

If you meant why is a managers basic salary so high, ask that question instead.

Im sure we've seen the rumoured figures, which no doubt led to Neal's

I'm appalled by the contract when you compare to normal hard working people

which appear to have an element of envy. I can think of people i've worked with who were on similar figures who couldnt find their buttocks with both hands. And if you want a comparison with "hard working people" Neal, I suggest you look up how much the various heads of departments at Torbay council were/are getting. That should make your head explode...

[arcadia]

Actually no im not

i mean the whole lower teirs of football where managers come and go often and managers are using the club as a step in their long term plan

AK kept the club up and as i see it the bonus for him was the full time job offered.

How many times has a manager gone to a club and done nothing and got sacked buckle at bristol an example

and not to mention the managers that get a job at the top end of the game and work down the leagues as keep getting sack.

And if the clubs had a performance bonus then they could have a lack of performance sack clause

Do you really think he kept the club up, he did not get a win for ages when he took over that sounds like now if you ask me!

[MidDevon]

The vast majority of "out of work" managers are not actually out of work at all, they are just not in management

most are in relative secure jobs of youth coaching, scouting etc, and have to give that up to take on a managers role

[Dave]

arcadia, you've claimed to have an involvement in the professional game therefore should know better than most it takes time for any new manager to in still confidence and changed attitudes amongst a pretty shattered group of players, when Alan Knill walked through the door the team had lost 7 on the spin and had hardly won a game months, he, nor anyone else would have turned things around over night, Yes AK did keep us in the league, why he hasn't been able to build on that thus far, who knows, I don't.

I get where Edduk12 is coming from, however what MidDevon alludes to is pretty good reason why any club at our level would have to offer that built in protection (great contract) to secure the services of even a retired player or up and coming youth coach wanting to take a move into management, ok they maybe prepared to accept a little less, think the difference would end up being marginal.

[Sunnysideup]

Ok sunnyside, i think you missed the point

Edd, the first line of your post was

92 clubs in the land means there are limted oppertunities for managers, so why dont clubs offer a min basic wage with a bonus for actually doing something?

I answered

Edd, dont want to piss on your bonfire but most managers are on a basic contract plus a bonus for either being in the top third/getting promoted/etc etc.

You asked a straightforward question, I gave you a straightforward answer. If you dont like the answer to your question, ask a different one.

[ferrarilover]

Given the stupidity of all of Edd's questions on this site, I'm beginning to wonder if he might not be using us to do his homework for him.

Surely any 7 year old can answer this question?

Matt.

[ferrarilover]

It's how the market works. There are, at least, 10, 000, 000 young men who would happily be pro footballers. Why then, do the top guys get £300, 000/week, rather than minimum wage?
By the same token, there are almost no people who want to wipe little old lady arses down the old folks home, yet they bump along at £3.50/hour.

It's a question of ability, rather than desire. We all want to be porn-star-astronaut-racing-driver-footballer-lawyer-doctors, but none of us has the capacity so to do.

Despite what Football Management 2013 told you, you aren't capable of guiding Tamworth Town to the Champions League final in 2018. Nor could you overtake Messi in the running for the 2014 Ballon d'Or. This is why you flip burgers (or whatever) and SAF cruises about in a new Bentley every week.

Your car analogy works, but only if you accept that the price of a Ford Focus is largely very low because there are many, many cars which can do exactly what a Focus can do. A Veyron is very expensive because, like a bloke who can actually manage a FL club, they're extremely rare and there are very few cars that can do what a Veyron can.

Now, if that didn't get you a smiley face and a nice comment from teacher, nothing will :~D

Matt.

[ferrarilover]

Do you not see that the two are linked?

If Torquay offer the new manager £4.50/week, they'll laugh and walk out. We do pay as little as possible, just like any employer. The club don't hold all the power. They need a manager and that manager needs to be of sufficient quality and experience and ability. The balance between the two is where the salary falls.

That's how our particular brand of Capitalism works.

Matt.

[ferrarilover]

The club has almost no power here. The club must have a manager, a manager can do what he likes. Without a manager, the club doesn't exist, it goes out of business and ceases to exist. Without a club, a manager works for Sky, or BT, or sodding Tesco if it comes to it.

The prospective manager is forced to give away some of his monopoly on power by volunteering for the position. The club knows that candidates have mortgages to pay and that they are clearly wanting to be football managers, hence they have applied to fill the vacancy. However, unlike clubs, which have absolutely no option but to have in their employ a first team manager, prospective managers can do what the hell they like, so long as they earn, say, not less than the £1200/month they need to make rent and bills.

The club needs a manager a damn sight more than a manager needs a club.

Matt.

[Neal]

The club has all the power,

The record of so called "experienced" managers isn't that good is it.

The point of this thread is that so called "experienced" managers can also turn out to be crap, like the current incumbent who is on track to be the worst ever. And I guess the board gave him a contract like he's got because of his fantastic record of managing clubs before.