Torquay United Fans Forum

If the SAG/KGB/STAZI or whatever can lay down their regulations at will to justify their existance. Can someone please explain to me why a football club would build a brand new spanking stand without segregation designed in to it? It makes no sense whatsoever to lose 300 odd paying customers seats on the whim of Herr Sagman by draping a ridiculous flag between the invading heathens and the fluffy little Gulls. Am i missing something here or are we subject to the Ministry of (f****d up) Design?

I certainly understand the bigger picture, Forever, and I am acquainted with the information in the links you provided. And I am not against all-ticket matches nor segregation as such. The rules and guidance issued in order to ensure safety at stadiums are eminently sensible and I have no problem with them. But what I might have an issue with is the blanket way in which these could be applied, the one-size-fits-all approach.

While most guidance will be applicable to all grounds whatever their size, there will always be some aspects requiring different considerations or emphasis for, say, grounds holding fifty thousand fans from those with a capacity of five thousand, or for big matches expected to be attended to full capacity from those involving a reserve or youth team. And these days it obviously makes sense for grounds to segregate groups of opposing fans even when games are not all-ticket.

Flexibility is the key. Indeed, Section 3 of the Green Guide appears to indicate that segregation is not mandatory but if applied should be done flexibly. So there is no reason why small groups, friends or family or sports clubs or community groups or whatever, whose members contain opposing supporters, should not be accommodated and allowed to watch games together, if the will is there. Authorities will always tend to choose the options which make it easiest for themselves, but it is up to us the public to avoid blind acceptance of whatever is handed down from on high, and to insist that as far as possible our own requirements and choices are catered for.

Which is why we always need to ensure a fully representative SAG to discuss and decide all the issues and options, rather than simply act as a rubber stamp for official requests and requirements.

Here is a link to the green guide on stadium safety..http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk ... -guide.pdf

Click the link and scroll down to page 25 and read on gullscorer and all if you're interested, just shows the minefield all clubs regardless of ground size and ave, attendances have to go through, and again points to reasons why are club now has implemented all-ticket restrictions for some games.

Not calling you out here goalscorer, but you're not understanding the bigger picture. There were some problems up in the bench at the rovers match, however the biggest problems were down in the corner of the popside, you have understand there has to be a certain amount of stewards and security staff in all areas of the ground, they are on hand not just to react to outbreaks on violence, they are there in case of emergencies i.e first aid, illness, fire break outs, emergency evacuation of a stand or whole ground.

If all ticket restrictions were lifted, the club no doubt would have to more than double the amount of security/safety staff they have on duty for the listed games, at a very high cost. If S-A-G advised a game to be all -ticket the club then chose to ignore that advice, a large number of away fans entered the home areas, which for a start is against the ground regulations, and a serious incident was to occur, what do you think would happen to our club ?

If any body are in doubt as to the answer, or possible out comes, then take the time to read through this, or cheery pick through certain parts, it explains/ has many reasons whys segregation at all league grounds is needed.
http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thef ... gland.ashx

Also, to be honest, all-ticket restrictions had nothing what so ever to with attendances as these games. spoken plainly, we were playing dogs muck football, getting beaten almost every weeks, and a fair % of our fans couldn't stand the manager, a big part of the reasons barely 900 made the short journey down to Plymouth, when 2 seasons ago 1900 went.

occasionally bring my daughter (a Grecian) to games; when we play the Greeks, she tries to keep quiet ! The STHs around me know that she's been corrupted & are largely sympathetic. The real issue is not individual away supporters but groups of them who may be aggressive (as experienced at Rovers game on Bristows Bench ). Difficult one to resolve, but not convinced that the number of all-ticket games needs to be as high, & pleased that the Club are aware of the feelings of many supporters & at least talking about it.

The club has issued an explanation of the reasons for this season's all-ticket games http://www.torquayunited.com/news/artic ... 11216.aspx and mentions the involvement of the police and the SAG (Safety Advisory Group) but I'm still not too happy about the general policy regarding all-ticket games and I wonder just how much influence the supporters and the general public have in formulating such policy.

What is the composition of the SAG and to what extent are the views of supporters and the public taken into account? Has any research been carried out in recent years relating to safety and segregation of fans? Do controls need to be strictly enforced or is there room for some discretion and leeway? What if, for example, I wanted to attend a match with my cousin who supports the opposing team? Would one of us have to remain silent, or would our afternoon be spoiled because we were required to watch the game from different sections of the ground?

When ticketing policy is discussed, will the club capitulate to the demands of the authorities for what some might regard as 'overkill' in dealing with potential problems? Will the cost of strictly enforced segregation and the alienation of spectators be a price the club will really have to pay, at a time when football needs all the spectators it can attract?

These are issues which need to be fully discussed and decided, rather than simply rubber-stamped..