Torquay United Fans Forum

There appear to be many reasons for our plight and all of them avoidable. That is the really frustrating part. Without Ellis, O'Kane, Olejnik, even at the start of the season, there were some good performances e.g. the home game v Rochdale. But as the football stagnated, Ling reverted into his defensive shell and the performances were pretty poor long before he was sick. We had that run of chucking away games in the 85th minute, prior to which, we were still thinking about the play-offs.

To be relegated (which I think is highly likely, sadly) seems such folly on behalf of the club - by which I mean everyone connected to it, board, management and players.

The board, no doubt, have taken their eye off the ball, so to speak, been sidetracked by building up the infrastructure (quite rightly) but I think a sense of complacency led them to think we were safe back in January, when some of us were pointing out the example of Macclesfield and Lincoln in falling from seemingly secure positions. So they didn't act. Whether LIng was refused reinforcements or didn't ask remains open to debate and conjecture but regardless - it has cost us dearly.

Again, the board dillied and dallied waiting to see if Taylor could carry the team and waited far too long before bringing in Knill. Again, I think Knill was a bad choice in terms of us needing a manager who could rally the troops. The football is no better - yesterday v Bradford was worse than anything I have seen all season, and Knill's much heralded Everton and Manchester United contacts have only been able to harvest two loanees from the reserves of League 1 clubs. The board have blown it utterly this season by refusing to act. Predicting a relegation fight in January is not being wise after the event - it was blatantly obvious we were in poor form even before Christmas. But for some reason the club ignored this glaring truth and carried on with their state of inertia. If the club have been blocking the signings that would keep us in the league then they are as bad as Bateson and should just let the club fold, as otherwise what is the point of TUFC?

The management: Ling, Taylor, Knill...neither have been able to have any impact on a group of players who think they are better than they are. Tactically they appear unable to change games. One could argue that for Knill that it is not his squad, that he has not had time...but that was his remit - to keep us up and he currently is not making a very good job of it. We are nearer to the bottom of the league than we were when he came in, his signings just haven't materialised.

The players. Other than Poke, Saah and Downes, I think the others have either not been good enough or their attitude has been wrong. Rene Howe, until recently is one that I would have included in the list of players who should escape blame but lately he has just seemed to have lost interest. He may already know that he is going to join someone else next season (he may not of course, but I suspect he is) but while TUFC are paying his wages then he should be giving everything.

The likes of Mansell and Nicholson seem to have coasted on the back of their 'hero' status and it seems, sadly that their relationship with Torquay fans has turned sour. But both have been poor this year. They may have got into the PFA League 2 team this time last year but one can imagine they didn't receive a single vote this time around and their performances wouldn't merit a place in the Western League select XI.

Too many members of the squad flatter to deceive - having about one good performance in 20. The wingers, Macklin, Stevens, Bodin all look non-league and whilst one would hope that Bodin would turn it around, he has not looked like a £700 player, let alone a £70,000 one. I feel sorry for the old lady who wasted her money on him.

Next year, we should get Sturrock in. He wants another job. He did a good job at Southend and he would be a better bet than Alan Knill. However, if we go down then we should go for someone like Steve Burr or Dave Hockaday, if they would leave their clubs. Rumours seem to suggest that Paul Buckle would like another go at Plainmoor and I would take him above Knill.

Yup, hurling money at a squad is a sure sign of success:

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd ... =transfers

We were doing just fine until mid-January when the manager went sick, we had a rotten run of luck and threw away a promising start. Where we are now is nothing to do with not spending hundreds of thousands in the summer. That money has been redirected to projects which will improve the club as a club immeasurably and allow us to attract better players in the future. All we needed was to either not bollocks it up completely in the FA Cup, or not get seriously unlucky in the Paint Pot or to not get drawn against the best side in the first round of the League Cup.
We have only ourselves to blame for the FA Cup exit, it was careless, but the other two were extremely unlucky. Leicester were the best side in the first round of the League Cup and we battered Yeovil and lost out on a coin toss by 1/5th.
We have lost our manager to illness mid-season, almost unprecedented, and we have suffered more than our fair share of odd goal defeats. A lack of serious investment has not lead to this, a whole host of things has lead to this.
I will concede that the Board's decision not to fund a loanee or two for ML was foolish and didn't help, but it is one very small piece in a very large puzzle which has resulted in our scrapping to avoid relegation.

This idea that Eunan, Bobby and Mark got us to within a whisker of the Autos last year is oft repeated on here and it is just as wrong the thousandth time as it is the first. If three elevenths of a side are L1 standard (Mark and Eunan are in L1, Bobby is in a side who really ought to be in L1) and the rest are Conference standard (that's where we're headed*, so they must be) then the result is not the Playoffs, the result is a relegation fight. If I take Carrick, Vidic and De Gea and put them in the QPR side, you don't end up with a side capable of winning the Champions League, you get a slightly less rubbish QPR.

Matt.

*I don't actually believe this.

Think this sort of question should be saved until our fate is decided, we all need to pull together and try our best to help the team stay above the dotted line.

EDIT: However if we do drop then I think a fans forum is necessary as there will be lots of people with lots of questions for the board!

Good post SBG and i agree with it all. As a side issue, you say you go to the games with Warwick Gull? Did you happen to go to Rochdale away because as it happens, i parked on the main road that Spotland is on and was getting out of my car when another car pulled up in front of me and 2 blokes and a younger lad got out wearing Gulls stuff. I clocked this and started up a brief friendly conversation and one of them said they had come from Warwick. It's probaly a long shot but maybe it was yourself and Warwick Gull?

Bitchie

I dont dispute much of your reasoning but neither did I say that significant sums should be spent.

However I would have thought say £100,000 could have been spent out of the £550,000 - a fraction (or 18%) - which could have secured say 2 players at £50,000.

Again I would agree we will always be a selling club but it would be good if say 20% of the profit on sales could be ploughed back into the playing side so that gradually through time a better squad is built.

It is great/fantastic to have the Bench, the new training facilities and the youth set up - but it will be worth diddly squat if we are in the BSP.

I fear that rather than find another 1000 fans we could lose another 1000 fans if we go down and then we will be in a vicious circle of being unable to get out of the Conference.

I would also add - without wanting to appear Lingy bashing- that the style of football we have played for much of this year has put fans off. Myself (and Warwick Gull) up here in the Midlands usually go to about 10 away games a year and usually attend about 8 home games. Northampton was the first away game we had been to since Wycombe because we just couldnt face the defensive negative style of play. We have been spoilt for many years with the Rosenoir/Buckle adventerous passing style of play to be replaced with the McFarland/Ling defensive style and it is driving fans away.To me TUFC has for the last 10 years been an entertaining, adventerous team but not this year.

There was a time under both LR and PB when you didnt care if the opposition scored because we would score more - attack was the best form of defense - but that sadly is not the case anymore. It used to be entertaining and you went to a game in anticipation - now I go , out of loyalty, but with a feeling of dread and despondancy at what I believe will be the outcome, but even sadder the style and way we play, which is just alien to the way I believe we should, and have in the past played.

Bitchie Renault wrote:As a club we have lost something in the region of £1.5million over the last five years. We have also heavily invested in new training facilities and the new main stand. The league position is perilous, but the infrastructure is generally very good for League 2. To suggest that just because we sold 3 players for £550k last summer that we should automatically go out and spend significant sums on transfer fees bringing replacement players in is not the whole picture.
We are in a deep recession, we don't have a wealthy benifactor any more and our gates are pretty poor. While squad investment would've been great, a prudent club board was right to be cautious with funds, even if they did go a little too far.
We've always been a selling club, have had to be in order to survive. Unless we can uncover another 1000+ fans ever week or convince a multi-millionaire to invest in the club then we always will be.
To be fair, the replacements for Olejnic and Ellis (Poke and Downes) were both freebies and have been two of the players of the season, it was probably more in midfield where the loss of creativity was the biggest glaring shortfall. But I would say one of the biggest factor in our poor season has been the massively disappointing form of seasoned pros; Mansell, Nicholson, Stevens, etc.

well, thats mighty fine - as long as we stay in it.

As a club we have lost something in the region of £1.5million over the last five years. We have also heavily invested in new training facilities and the new main stand. The league position is perilous, but the infrastructure is generally very good for League 2. To suggest that just because we sold 3 players for £550k last summer that we should automatically go out and spend significant sums on transfer fees bringing replacement players in is not the whole picture.
We are in a deep recession, we don't have a wealthy benifactor any more and our gates are pretty poor. While squad investment would've been great, a prudent club board was right to be cautious with funds, even if they did go a little too far.
We've always been a selling club, have had to be in order to survive. Unless we can uncover another 1000+ fans ever week or convince a multi-millionaire to invest in the club then we always will be.
To be fair, the replacements for Olejnic and Ellis (Poke and Downes) were both freebies and have been two of the players of the season, it was probably more in midfield where the loss of creativity was the biggest glaring shortfall. But I would say one of the biggest factor in our poor season has been the massively disappointing form of seasoned pros; Mansell, Nicholson, Stevens, etc.

coley wrote:OK Andy, will be good to meet a few from here, and show that I'm not a negative and miserable a*se h*le. I usually go to more away games and keep to myself but since joining this site have opened up a bit. Let me know !

you could have fooled (most on here) me.

coley wrote:OK Andy, will be good to meet a few from here, and show that I'm not a negative and miserable a*se h*le. I usually go to more away games and keep to myself but since joining this site have opened up a bit. Let me know !

That was my idea when i first met them but i don't think i've succeeded!

I used to keep myself to myself but still sing when before i met anyone but now it's all systems go. This site has also enabled me to open up a bit too, perhaps not a wise thing!

OK Andy, will be good to meet a few from here, and show that I'm not a negative and miserable a*se h*le. I usually go to more away games and keep to myself but since joining this site have opened up a bit. Let me know !

coley wrote:Andy, let me know if you are going on Saturday, I can meet you outside ?

Yeah, no probs Coley. I usually meet up with a few of the lads from here at away games once inside the ground and we go and stand at the back and try to get songs going so another voice would be welcome. I'll let you know if i can make it or not but my track record for planning to go to a game miles away and actually getting to it isn't great. I'm more than hopeful though.

Andy, let me know if you are going on Saturday, I can meet you outside ?

austrianandygull wrote:I'll always give my full support at games Dave. I still like the idea of Spongebob taking charge of us next season though.

Argeed, just imagine his motivational team talks, ' Iam ready, Iam ready'..

I'll always give my full support at games Dave. I still like the idea of Spongebob taking charge of us next season though.

On todays evidence I would vote for spongebob as manager, only problem with that is, his faithful sidekick Patrick ' Shaun Taylor' is already at the club..

Thing to remember is what ever figure the club received in transfer payments would be subject to tax liabilities so £550k is not the final amount that would land in the club's bank account, also most of these payments would have been phased, so cash flow comes into it aswell.

However do agree, was talking in Boots/Laces after the game and said to a few think the damage was done back in December/January, most of us could see all things with regards to the team were not right, some, myself included started to talk about a relegation scrap, while you know who was talking about a plastic pitch and League 1.

We are fire fighting a situation that should never have happened in the first place, I said back in late November this playing group needed some help via the loan market, had the club done that we would not be in this sorry mess.

When the curtian comes down on this gawd awfuls eason, that is the time for finger pointing, thats the time to aportion blame, right now we are in a relegation fight, one we can still survive, so what is needed now is full support for the team and nothing else.