Torquay United Fans Forum

exilegull wrote: 44 minutes ago Overall the proof will be in the pudding though - does this raise extra cash of discourage attendance?

There are two key aspects here:

1. The cost impact for regulars, especially those with families who attend in the Bench, which I think we would ideally not see increased if at all possible.

2. The impact on revenues - both ticket sales and ancillary sales (e.g. from pies and pints to shirts and hats).

Increasing ticket prices will undoubtedly reduce demand for tickets - that is basic economics - and therefore we have to hope the club have run the numbers and determined that the increase will outweigh this to deliver a net increase total ticket revenue.

The impact on other sales is harder to predict - perhaps some of those who would have bought a new shirt will now save the cash to fund the increase in ticket price. Some may forgo the pre-match pint.

The financial impact on supporters is negative, but this is ok so long as the club makes enough extra money to offset the impact on goodwill.

These things are famously hard to predict (look at the ONS forecasts for Reeves’ budget!) but for now we have to trust that the commercially-successful owners know what they are doing.

Taelee73 wrote: Today, 07:37 We’ve just been told that we are now debt free, which is amazing and I am very thankful to the owners, but doesn’t this now mean we have money to spend elsewhere?

Don't forget last season the club had two fairly substantial injections of cash last year from the new owners and then from TUST which will not repeat next year - they went a sizeable way to reducing debts and helping with some of the investment that needed.

I'd agree that comparing prices to league clubs is not so useful - as has been highlighted, league clubs have other sources of revenue, especially sponsorship and money from the Football League that get's distributed - we rely substantially more on gate receipts, although this is clearly something the club are working on to increase other revenue sources.

To some extent I agree with Dave - are we paying simply paying customers, no different to our relationship with Tesco, or is it more than that, we are part of the club all invested in it's success. The new owners and a number of people around them have put both money and I think more importantly a huge amount of time into saving the club, stabilizing it and starting to move it forward, no one is making any money out of the club, everything is going into it's regeneration, therefore I struggle to begrudge a few quid extra to be part of that rebuilding, although acknowledging for some people the additional money is tough to find. Overall the proof will be in the pudding though - does this raise extra cash of discourage attendance?

Taelee73 wrote: Today, 07:37 We all want the club to prosper on and off the pitch, but to hear certain people saying put up and shut up, ridiculous.

Our prices are not far off Championship, League one levels and we’re in NLS! If we’d been promoted then yes a rise would be acceptable, however we weren’t, this is more about forcing people out of Bristows for me.

We were getting gates of over 5000 and that............

Stop whining like a petulant child and wake up to the facts of what we are, a club recovering from almost ceasing to exist. Our prices come without the sponsorship and prize money, without tv money and without large numbers of away fans. Comparing them to league clubs is what's truly ridiculous.

First of all you were bemoaning the thought of us targeting promotion now you're crying about sitting in a different seat and paying more to put the club on a more sound financial footing. Put your toys back in your pram and get someone to push you to your new seat.

I seriously do see all sides to the argument here, the very future of our club depends on the next generation of fans, yesterdays Dads who brought their kids, who are now todays Dads bringing their kids, and so the process repeats, so any initiative that makes football at TUFC more affordable to families must be seen as a good thing, personally think this move to cleanse the Bristow's bench of kids is a bad idea.

Using Exeter City as a comparison in my humble opinion is totally flawed , for a start they're an EFL League 1 club, the 'average' annual income of League 1 clubs was reported to be around the £10 million mark 2 years ago, likely to have risen. EFL clubs benefit from much larger income through TV , attendances, solidarity payments and much more, there isn't the trickle down of money through to the non-league, so with much larger income, comes the ability to have a different pricing structure.

It also must be understood, that Exeter fans themselves help fund their own club, through the their 1931 fund which helps cover the cost of a players wage, where supporters pay £19 a month, they have a community fund running also.

So that leads to the other side of the argument, we as TUFC fans have to ask ourselves what kind of a club do we want ? There are plenty of League 1 and 2 clubs who are reporting significant loses, if they've got means to finance those loses, well good for them, we here at TUFC do not have that luxury at this moment.

So we as fans of this club will have to look at whether we can dig a little deeper, of course that doesn't apply to everyone, some right now are less fortunate than others, so if you can only afford to go to a few games, your equally as worthy, as a season ticket holder.

Personally I'm in the slightly more fortunate bracket, so I did invest in the community share issue, I will renew my season ticket, and will join the club lottery. I can see what the board are trying to do, but their having to rebuild this club from the ground up, that takes a lot of money, I do want to be part of the journey, so what ever little I can do, I will.

There are comments on this thread that are no way close to the truth, firstly, we are a fan owned club, we are not, we are majority owned by a group of business people who just happen to be fans, the TUST owns less than a third and the board have said they are quite happy with that but see no need to have that percentage increased, that bought the TUST two non executive directors on the board, I.E. two voices but no actual meaningful vote.
Secondly if we talk about borehamwood and their bigger budget, it will always be bigger, they have over 650 thousand a year coming in before they start from the Arsenal ladies and Arsenal under 18's playing their games there.
I am neutral about the intergration of the womans team, will it cost the club money, yes it will be, I have no interest in watching that part of the package and would like to have been given the choice when buying my season ticket whether I wanted this add on for which I would rightly pay.
I would much rather have seen a meaningful investment in the youth set up where at least there is a potential that one day, when pigs start flying again we would produce a first team player or that we could sell one of these prospects for real money.
Reading the various comments on this thread it is obvious the owners decision is contentious to say the least, if you like, they wish to charge us to watch robbie williams but are only supplying a tribute act. as for pushing youngsters out of Bristows that for me is a very poor decision, In our block of bristows I rarely see more than three or four children who could be considered under 14, multiply that across the stand , how much additional revenue do they actually think they are going to pull in by making it adults only. Even when we have 5500 plus crowds , the pop side is rammed, bristows is rammed and the away staand is full of cheapo and give away tickets there is always holes all the family stand,the club needs to ask why not force people to sit there.

We all want the club to prosper on and off the pitch, but to hear certain people saying put up and shut up, ridiculous.

Our prices are not far off Championship, League one levels and we’re in NLS! If we’d been promoted then yes a rise would be acceptable, however we weren’t, this is more about forcing people out of Bristows for me.

We were getting gates of over 5000 and that was bringing in substantially more income than the budget they had given based on gates of 2000. If they are budgeting for gates of 3000 for the coming season (which we could have expected) that is obviously an increase of 50% and more in line with Boreham Woods budget. We’ve just been told that we are now debt free, which is amazing and I am very thankful to the owners, but doesn’t this now mean we have money to spend elsewhere?

You can not use the inflation line for price rises, our prices have been much higher than everyone else’s for years, we started from a sky high price to begin with.

The people saying stop moaning, how often do you pay to go to Plainmoor? do you have kids you take to Plainmoor with you ? We like sitting in the same spots we have done for years, our kids like sitting there and now the club are trying to forcing us to sit with the inferior view from the Family stand, it’s crazy how they want to push away the next generation of paying customers and are effectively punishing those who buy ST year after year, especially with some of the dross we’ve had to put up with.

They’ve already stated they don’t want to rely solely on attendances for their income, we know money needs to be invested, but to target ST holders and those with youngsters, the very people who help inject funds in the close season, just wrong.

We finished up with crowds of over 5000, all paying customers, I would have expected 4000 for our opening home game, I’d now be surprised if we reach 3000.

Well I guess we will have to see what impact these prices rises have on attendances. Just saying well if we want a decent side you need to pay for it is fine, but how many fans will stay away meaning no more money comes through the gate. I don't think anyone predicted the massive increase in attendance last year, and I think these price rises put that at risk. Its really hard to argue we are offering value for money given the standard of football on offer. Look at Exeter (fan owned) ST prices for next season compared to us.

It can be justified because they were too cheap. I hadn’t realised the prices hadn’t increased in 3 seasons but the first of those 3 years there was high inflation (relatively)

Sustainably run club, everyone needs to put their shoulder to the wheel. If the fans are not funding it, who do you think should? Seriously, what do you propose to be the alternative? Or maybe you would accept a lesser team for a lesser price. I’d rather have the ambition for an extra couple of quid, which will buy you half a coffee.

In one year, this club has got so much right. Hard decisions that needed to be made to start to balance the books to ensure this club is sustainable going forward. The club has been and should continue to be commended for this. However, they won't get everything right, and for me, the pricing structure is a kick in the teeth for the fans...the fans that kept the club afloat when uncle Clarke decided to walk away. The same fans that have cobbled together over £200k for shares. The same fans that have bought the new home and away shirts in record sales, the same fans that have turned up week in week out with an average home attendance beyond the new owners wildest dreams (never thought id see an average that high considering there's hardly any away fans week in week out). The club would never have factored in such high attendances - so much more income than they would have budgeted for - and yet when the fans should have been rewarded for record sales and record attendances, they get slapped with a 10% hike on most adult matchday prices.

However, where most posters have discussed the adult prices, id like to share the child prices..in particular the bench next year and in my opinion the alienating of families to watch their club.

We go back to that horrendous 23/24 season, I brought my little girl, aged 4 back then, to plainmoor. She gained entry on an under 7 ticket back then. In that season, entry for under 7 was free. A great way of getting kids through the door - the next generation. Last season, my girl aged 5 was subjected to the abolished under 7 rate with a new under 8 rate with daddy scooping up the £8 fee for a seat on Bristows Bench. Next season, they want £13 for my 6 year old to gain entry to that same seat in addition to my adult seat price going up. £0 to £13 in 2 seasons is awful! And they want to encourage young families to Plainmoor...I can never make use of the family stand family seadon ticket but looks like that's gone as well.

My combined daddy and daughter day out last season (23/24) in the bench was £20, next season (25/26) it will be £35. There is not one poster on this forum that can justify that price hike...I dont even think the owners can justify that.

The club has done so much right in 12 months, we will still be there to support the team regardless of price but we will be going to less games, buying less merchandise and buying less from the food and drink outlets. The first big clanger from the ownership. Awful!

Someone else did the work for this (Matt), so all credit to them: for the 3 stands, 2 prices on offer (early and full) and adult & concession - you have 12 price groups. Since the last price increase 4 years ago, having been frozen ever since, in 11 of those 12 price groups the price today after the rise is lower than the 2021 price plus inflation. Only concession Popside Early Bird tickets are more expensive now than they were in 2021, adjusting for inflation. The other 11 groups are all lower.

So I think we are seeing today the effect of 4 years of freezes rather than a jump today. The world has undergone huge inflation in recent years. I was in ASDA today and couldn't get a small role of tin foil for under £4. Have seen quite a few reactions today saying we shouldn't have increased prices after missing out on promotion but I think you really do have to separate those points - the on field disappointment of losing a play-off game doesn't overide setting the club on a good financial footing. The reality is that we don't have anyone underwriting a £1m a season loss, we either break even or ends don't meet.

The owners mentioned in one Chairman's Chat that they were getting less per head than they expected. They have to draw the line between balancing the books now and nurturing future generations, which is no easy feat. So I think the changes in Bristow's Bench pricing reflect this - they don't feel they can afford to sell what is the most in demand seat in the ground for £1.69 a game when it could be sold for £22 on the gate. With hundreds of seats spare you could do that, but it's a different question when demand is higher. Have seen a few posts from people who are impacted by this, and I do have sympathy for groups of people being together for years and wanting to stay together and when higher demand elsewhere is now impacting their costs as existing ST holders. They are now faced with £5.17 a game or moving to the family stand. It's one of the harsher decisions being made now, but you can follow the feelings of the owners over time and what they feel they need to do to raise the income per head and break even.

That is I think the key thing for me. For years and years we heard nothing at all from the owners of the club, who underwrote huge losses as long as Taylor Wimpey funded it. As soon as they pulled out, so did our owner. We now have a situation where we have communicative owners, who explain their decisions and where you can see why they make them, even when there's a large backlash as they have felt today, they are doing so for what they think is the long term future of the club.

Taelee73 wrote: Yesterday, 18:20
It feels the guise of getting kids into the Family stand for the purpose of giving them a targeted football experience is a bit of smoke and mirrors, and more like they want extra paying adults filling those spaces and cheaper fans filling the less popular Family stand.

It probably is, it's called maximising income. Like others have said if you are a fan owned club you are also inevitably a fan financed club, no sugar daddies, no dodgy payments from property developers keeping the club afloat as was the case under the last regime.
If you want the club to flourish then you have got to expect to have back it financially. We may have assembled a squad that finished runners up on budget based on attendances of 2000 but be honest that side was less than convincing in what was a poor quality league. Next season we need to guarantee promotion by winning the league and that is going to take a much better squad.

Whinge when we can’t afford to keep up with likes of Boreham Wood, whinge when we do something about it

I don’t mind paying/investing more for the team, however, the extra cost is so the women’s team feel better and are rewarded, they will be requesting equal pay next. Sadly the pitch will suffer also. Zero interest in watching women play football. It’s all about inclusivity woke bs, and we got to pay for it. Sorry but it’s absolute bollocks.

Wasn’t expecting a rise in ST price tbh… disappointing to say the least

Good God, dare to criticise the manager and you draw all the haters posting absolute pelters about how lucky we are to have him and the current owners but put up prices by a few quid and they're guilty of making huge mistakes.

Pay up and be grateful you can witness the journey.