Torquay United Fans Forum

[quote=desperado post_id=253637 time=1613754255 user_id=23992]
I need a lie down after reading that....
Looks like Kings Lynn are stopping playing after the next two games as well.
[/quote]

Sorry Matey - if you thought that one was bad try this one for size :whistle:

The NL clubs play up to 30 games each and the season ends - the top 12 teams are then moved to a Champions League on their current league standings (points) and play each other once (coin flip for home advantage) to battle out the promotion and play off spots.

I need a lie down after reading that....
Looks like Kings Lynn are stopping playing after the next two games as well.

[quote=portugull post_id=253631 time=1613736232 user_id=131]
Nick you make a very good point about Notts County. I think there is a precedent when a Club fails to complete the season but I cannot remember which season.

I seem to recall all results for all teams against that Club were expunged.
[/quote]

Are you thinking of Aldershot's league record for the 1991-92 season, which had seen them play 36 games out of 46 but those results were declared void, their record expunged when they went out of business and were obliged to resign from the Football League.

The difference here is that by Dover shutting up shop they are not technically out of business - their argument is if the carry on without grant funding they will become insolvent and have to go into administration. So technically as Dover are still a NL side they can't have there record expunged. The other issue is legality under the Covid regime. The Government guideline are clear: [i]All athletes and staff should also be clear on their route to ‘opt out’ of the organised training environment under Step One conditions at any time without unreasonable steps being taken against them consequently
[/I] We are in Catch 22 - I can see court cases on the horizon if this not solved mathematically by a PPG modification system, for example Tranmere's proposal:

If all the fixtures cannot be fulfilled over the season then you could use a statistical margin for error applied to the points-per-game method;

a) The league table is calculated using a simple PPG basis;
b) There is then applied to the table the statistical average actual margin for error over the last 3 years (being +6.3 or – 5.45%);
c) Teams in the automatic promotion spots even where the margin for error is applied, should be automatically promoted;
d) Teams in the play-off places or who could be in the play-off places where the margin for error is applied should be invited (but not compelled) to compete in a play-off tournament;

This maximises the promotion opportunities for clubs on a sporting merit basis, and takes away some of the inherent unfairness in using a raw PPG calculation.

In circumstances when the season is being disrupted by circumstances entirely beyond everyone’s control, this represents the fairest way of ending the season, maintaining the integrity of the football pyramid and the financial stability of the NL clubs.

[quote=portugull post_id=253631 time=1613736232 user_id=131]
Nick you make a very good point about Notts County. I think there is a precedent when a Club fails to complete the season but I cannot remember which season.

I seem to recall all results for all teams against that Club were expunged.
[/quote]

That would be my guess, there is no other easy solution. The point I am making is there will be other clubs, Wealdstone could be another who don't play. The table would look very different with a number of results removed.

Nick you make a very good point about Notts County. I think there is a precedent when a Club fails to complete the season but I cannot remember which season.

I seem to recall all results for all teams against that Club were expunged.

Forget fines, sanctions and the like. How are the games going to be played or not played and results decided. Teams like Dover and there are more, don't play or play with junior teams, how does that affect the season to a finish.

Just think we have beaten Dover, while Notts County lost to them. Do you take our points away! Further, Sutton have not played them, do you award them a 20 - 0 victory 🤫

This has a long way to run and I for one will not guess / write on here my thoughts, we just don't know. All a load of poo and typical when we are top.

[quote=culmstockgull post_id=253627 time=1613731395 user_id=24376]
As for discipline, good luck imposing fines , they have no money, points deduction, already stated no relegation so where is the penalty.
[/quote]

There is more than one way of peeling an orange as there is for potential punishments?

Club fines are much like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Nothing should be off the table in dealing with the clubs who want elite football status but who through their actions significantly undermined the National League

Punishment for breach of the rules should be determined by an independent panel based on a five year rolling period namely.

Automatic 12 point deduction at the start of each season for the next 5 seasons.
Demote any club from automatic promotion position and out of the play-offs altogether for the next 5 seasons.
Impose a transfer embargo for the next two seasons so they can get their financial house back in order
Impose a stringent fine ( with loan offered by NL with generous interest rates to repay it - see I am not that cruel)

and I would even go as far as

Expulsion from the league. (allow clubs in the NL & SL who voted to continue the season to apply for the vacated slot/s)

This is really the proverbial pigs ear, we now know we play to the end with the hope that the FA ratify the decision and allow promotion but no relegation, if they don't we just play a lot of meaningless and expensive friendlies, we know Wealdstone and Dover have already furloughed their players and judging by the voting another five agreed with that decision but did not reach furlough stage. We now have a situation whereby up to seven teams in our league have to complete their fixtures on fear of discipline but do not have to put out their first team because they cannot afford to. es. Subsequent results against these seven teams possibly not playing their first teams could massively skew the outcome of the league. As for discipline, good luck imposing fines , they have no money, points deduction, already stated no relegation so where is the penalty.

What's to stop any club not in line for promotion furloughing all their first team player and just putting out the youth team to fulfil fixtures?

Think the outcome was predictable virtually since the resolutions were issued. It has been reported that the EFL said promotion and relegation between the two leagues (L2@NL) is still expected. Barrow can have no complaints if relegated. It is reported that any club in the NL who refuses to fulfil its fixtures will be charged. Hope Dover get a stonking fine and have to take out the loan they refused to take out in the first place to pay it off. I would also stipulate that any NL club that does not fulfil their fixtures can be relegated in the following season/s but not promoted from the NL for the next decade That will make them think twice about being rebellious.

Well, we know what the score is now....
NLN/NLS null and void, so no-one is getting relegated from the NL as we continue on...
Dover will be made up. :)
Now, relegation and promotion between L2 & NL is to be decided.
Our old friends Barrow and Grimsby are currently in the box seats for the trap-door....
Grimsby look doomed as they have been dog sh*te for ages and Barrow have only dropped into the bottom 2 recently.
Hope that Barrow don't complain about relegation still being possible - seeing as they only got promoted via PPG last season..... :}
Meanwhile....
Up the Gulls.