Bolton and Bury

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Bolton and Bury

by jimhart33 » 01 Sep 2019, 08:51

While having the greatest sympathy for Bury fans but not their owners, I consider that their local MP and others are now trying to get unfair favourable treatment suggesting any new owners should be able to start 2020/21 in Div2. What planet are the on? The best that should be available would be Nationwide North. Otherwise they should be a pheonix club and try to do an AFC Wimldon. The EFL should reject "special" pleading.

Bolton and Bury

by Plainmoor78 » 31 Aug 2019, 11:06

Scott Brehaut wrote: 30 Aug 2019, 09:45
What happens if nobody wants to buy the club off Clarke? He sells off everything to get his money and that’s us gone.

We are in an incredibly precarious position but because we are doing well at the moment, some people are choosing to ignore the plight we are in.
Very good point. At the moment I would say it is most people are turning a blind eye to our real plight.
If Osborne doesn't get what he wants then I think he would put the club into administration followed by liquidation. Nobody is going to pay £1.5 million plus on top of the value of the club just so Osborne gets his outlay back.
As mellowyellow says we have no future at plainmoor. In fact I don't think Plainmoor has a future because if we were to become a Phoenix club I don't think that outfit could afford the upkeep and running costs of the ground.

Bolton and Bury

by wodger of awabia » 30 Aug 2019, 16:07

tomogull wrote: 29 Aug 2019, 16:28 An interesting concept, Wodger. When I first read your post, I must admit I thought 'what a daft idea'. But on second thoughts, there is a lot of sense in it. Problem is - EFL/FA aren't well known for sense. Would 'gate money' include season ticket sales and tickets bought online? it would be a nightmare to administer, and I'm sure some clubs would find 'loopholes' to avoid paying 1%. But I do think more money should filter down from the Premier League to lower league clubs. Perhaps the plight of Bury and Bolton will concentrate a few minds ....... until the next club 'hits the buffers'.
Yes, all money paid by the public to watch matches at the ground. I know it would be difficult to administer but if we are capable of organising brexit then surely it could be done.......wait a moment!

Bolton and Bury

by PhilGull » 30 Aug 2019, 15:41

I think Statler and Waldorf on the HE podcast had it right. Clubs need to be run within their means. Apparently there are conference clubs averaging gates of 2-2500 with more than one player on £1500 ish per week. That's crazy and entirely unsustainable.
It doesn't matter how much money is washing around the premier league, Bury went under because they were badly managed. Yes the EFL/FA/(maybe even government) need to do more to make sure the the intentions of club owners are honourable but it is the owners who are entirely accountable. Mike Bateson ran a tight ship and kept us in the black for many a year. Since then all of our owners have haemorrhaged money from the club. Even the venerated original consortium who saved us in 2007 did a poor job at running the club with Paul and later Thea Bristow constantly having to dip in to their pockets to keep the club afloat.

Bolton and Bury

by culmstockgull » 30 Aug 2019, 14:11

With the sad demise of Bury I think the whole concept of how football is run is under very deep scrutiny, I saw today that even the premier is open to any sensible considerations which helps lower league clubs, If I understand the TUST correctly they had a meeting in August with our managing director and we await to see what was discussed, I still do not see a place for a trust owned football club in todays game, our TUST has about £35000 on deposit, that's about two weeks wages for the players and back room staff. Certainly buy a seat on the board if it was available because that gets you influence. Innovative ideas by the league must also be brought in, several have already been mentioned on this forum, I would like to see all 3rd and 4th round cup matches against championship and premier league clubs automatically played at the lower league club unless they surrender that right.
All premier and championship clubs must play at least one pre season friendly against lower league opposition.

Bolton and Bury

by Scott Brehaut » 30 Aug 2019, 09:45

Yes, all that the plight of Bury makes me think of is, are we next?

Clarke is staying in power for now, but what happens when he acknowledges that he won’t be getting the land and leaves, demanding his loans are paid before that? What happens if the person(s) (if any) that buy the club off him decide that the only way to pay him off is to go part time, and asset strip?

What happens if nobody wants to buy the club off Clarke? He sells off everything to get his money and that’s us gone.

We are in an incredibly precarious position but because we are doing well at the moment, some people are choosing to ignore the plight we are in.

Let’s hope that we don’t turn into a Bury ourselves, but I really do worry about the next few seasons, once Clarke realises he won’t be getting any money out of our club.

Bolton and Bury

by Modgull » 30 Aug 2019, 07:30

MellowYellow wrote: 29 Aug 2019, 21:42
Within their means? you mean like Torquay Utd's six-figure operating losses – £542,000 (2013-14), £646,000 (2014-15) and £337,000 (2015-16).. 2016-2017 United spent £303,733 more than they earned. And then the 2017/18 season - relegation to regional football. - that saw of loss of £959,000, one of the largest in the club's history. The recent losses being covered by loans from our Chairman. I would like to think our promotion year losses will not be so drastic, so wait on baited breathe.

Its hard for lower league clubs, like ours, to live within their means unless there are other revenue streams as Clarke Osborne has told us - I believe him, support his vision for the club's future and even grateful for him keeping his promises to date - I just wish I could trust him. For anyone who thinks we can just plod-on as we are at Plainmoor - take a look at the accounts over the last decade and you will find the answer is we can't. Hate to say it but we are very reliant on Clarke Osborne keeping us afloat. If he abandons ship and we sink without trace, no matter, our ship has be leaking badly for many a year and it was only a matter of time.
:goodpost:

Bolton and Bury

by MellowYellow » 29 Aug 2019, 21:42

Plainmoor78 wrote: 29 Aug 2019, 20:31 Very good point. It is up to all clubs to live within their means.

Within their means? you mean like Torquay Utd's six-figure operating losses – £542,000 (2013-14), £646,000 (2014-15) and £337,000 (2015-16).. 2016-2017 United spent £303,733 more than they earned. And then the 2017/18 season - relegation to regional football. - that saw of loss of £959,000, one of the largest in the club's history. The recent losses being covered by loans from our Chairman. I would like to think our promotion year losses will not be so drastic, so wait on baited breathe.

Its hard for lower league clubs, like ours, to live within their means unless there are other revenue streams as Clarke Osborne has told us - I believe him, support his vision for the club's future and even grateful for him keeping his promises to date - I just wish I could trust him. For anyone who thinks we can just plod-on as we are at Plainmoor - take a look at the accounts over the last decade and you will find the answer is we can't. Hate to say it but we are very reliant on Clarke Osborne keeping us afloat. If he abandons ship and we sink without trace, no matter, our ship has be leaking badly for many a year and it was only a matter of time.

Bolton and Bury

by Plainmoor78 » 29 Aug 2019, 20:31

Jerry wrote: 29 Aug 2019, 18:47 Wouldn't help in the slightest I'm afraid. The problem in the lower leagues isn't a lack of money, it's the fact that too much of what they have is spent on players wages. Give them more money and they will just spend more.
Very good point. It is up to all clubs to live within their means.

Bolton and Bury

by Dazza » 29 Aug 2019, 19:35

The 92 you talk about Wodger already get looked after a lot better than the Nationwide clubs. The EFL automatically protect their interest by a 4 up but only 2 down situation in Division 2. They are even more protective of their interest than the Premier League. That was our in our interest for a long time but we were twice stupid enough to fall through the trap.

Bolton and Bury

by Jerry » 29 Aug 2019, 18:47

wodger of awabia wrote: 29 Aug 2019, 15:48 If all of the 92 league and prem. clubs paid 1% of their gate money into a central fund, and then split the fund 92 ways at the end of the season, it might help. Man.City, United, Liverpool etc. would hardly notice the difference.
Wouldn't help in the slightest I'm afraid. The problem in the lower leagues isn't a lack of money, it's the fact that too much of what they have is spent on players wages. Give them more money and they will just spend more.

Bolton and Bury

by tomogull » 29 Aug 2019, 16:28

wodger of awabia wrote: 29 Aug 2019, 15:48 If all of the 92 league and prem. clubs paid 1% of their gate money into a central fund, and then split the fund 92 ways at the end of the season, it might help. Man.City, United, Liverpool etc. would hardly notice the difference.
An interesting concept, Wodger. When I first read your post, I must admit I thought 'what a daft idea'. But on second thoughts, there is a lot of sense in it. Problem is - EFL/FA aren't well known for sense. Would 'gate money' include season ticket sales and tickets bought online? it would be a nightmare to administer, and I'm sure some clubs would find 'loopholes' to avoid paying 1%. But I do think more money should filter down from the Premier League to lower league clubs. Perhaps the plight of Bury and Bolton will concentrate a few minds ....... until the next club 'hits the buffers'.

Bolton and Bury

by wodger of awabia » 29 Aug 2019, 15:48

If all of the 92 league and prem. clubs paid 1% of their gate money into a central fund, and then split the fund 92 ways at the end of the season, it might help. Man.City, United, Liverpool etc. would hardly notice the difference.

Bolton and Bury

by Modgull » 29 Aug 2019, 09:04

I don't subscribe to the line that clubs entering administration cheated. The current business model for most professional football clubs simply does not work. They rely on some sugar daddy bank rolling inflated player salaries creating unrealistic expectations for players and supporters alike. I think it is a questions of "there but for the grace of God go I"!

Bolton and Bury

by PhilGull » 29 Aug 2019, 08:48

I would urge everyone to join TUST. The more members they have - the more clout they have. The more members they have the more money they have. The time will come when we need TUST to save the club. Better to prepare now.

As for Bury, apparently Day wasn't subjected to the EFL fit and proper owners test. We really need some proper independent governance of football. The EFL is made up of the chairmen and women of it's members. The more dodgy owners there are the weaker their rules will become.

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