Torquay United Fans Forum

by **happytorq** » 03 Jan 2017, 14:40

Alpine Joe wrote:Some sensible points made by Dazza, and also by Hector when he says there 'may not yet be evidence that they have malevolent intentions regarding TUFC'. But the suspicions are there, and they'll be around for a good while yet.

It behooves GI to do more to make the fans more comfortable, then. A lack of transparency at a nervy time like this is always going to cause alarm. Showing up, being present, offering concrete plans (even if they also describe the roadblocks to those plans), some sort of ambition ("5 year plan", say) - all of these things will help to get us onside.

The near-silence and opacity of their dealings is what concerns us.

by **Gullscorer** » 24 Dec 2016, 11:51

by **Plainmoor78** » 24 Dec 2016, 11:05

hector wrote: For GI it is likely that TUFC are a means to end to making profit somewhere along the line. Decisions are likely to be made in terms of the impact it has on GI rather than TUFC. If it suits GI to close the club then they will. If it suits GI to invest in the club, then they will. However, the concerns of TUFC are always likely to play second fiddle to the concerns of GI. Is that something long-term we really want?

This would apply to any commercial buyer who might have bought TUFC or any other sporting outfit. It would also have applied to the Chinese, American, midlands bidders had they been genuine or credible.
In the absence of an extremely wealthy fan with more money than sense this was our only option. We have arrived at this point because when we had the extremely wealthy fan with more money than sense we threw any concept of commercial/financial discipline out the window.
If we survive it will be because GI have successfully managed to apply sound business principles to the running of the club.

by **Plainmoor78** » 24 Dec 2016, 10:53

Are there two different Alpine Joes on this forum? I can't believe ii have just read a sensible and valid post from someone called Alpine Joe.

by **tomogull** » 23 Dec 2016, 22:51

Yes - I fully agree with Alpine Joe. Good post. This could be an important role for TUST and so I hope the chairman doesn't take the attitude that he wants nothing to do with GI. We're all very suspicious of their true intentions, and with good cause. It would be interesting to know the conditions that they had to agree before the transfer was completed. Two criteria which we as fans must make sure they are forced to fulfil - 1. They do not obtain the freehold of Plainmoor before a new stadium which is fit for purpose is built and 2. an agreement on the rent that the club would have to pay for using the stadium. However, I can't see anything to be gained by GI by forcing the club to fold due to charging an extortionate rent.

by **Alpine Joe** » 23 Dec 2016, 20:03

Some sensible points made by Dazza, and also by Hector when he says there 'may not yet be evidence that they have malevolent intentions regarding TUFC'. But the suspicions are there, and they'll be around for a good while yet. Therefore I feel it would be reassuring for a significant number of fans if a Supporters Representative could be sat around the Boardroom table. If those malevolent intentions should ever appear, then an ever vigilant TUST member stands a far better chance of spotting them early and raising the alarm, if they hold a position at the centre of proceedings.

If such an opportunity presents itself, I'm sure that TUST realise they owe it to their members, and to the wider fan base,to accept such an offer, which would also give them a greater chance of influencing the future direction of the club.

by **Dazza** » 23 Dec 2016, 19:44

I am on record as saying I didn't want GI and despite an assured start from them but that's all it is . I shall take one hell of a lot of convincing. However their lousy record is a two edged affair. Close us or use us and with that record they themselves would never convince any sports club anywhere to go anywhere near them or their MD again. They would have to make on hell of a profit to box themselves in a roll of inevitable assassin. Within football I think we are generally regarded as a friendly, non threatening and good to visit club who don't particularly warrant harm . I am sure GI are fully aware of both situations.

We can do nothing else but wait and see.

by **hector** » 23 Dec 2016, 19:21

wivelgull wrote:But where is the EVIDENCE that the new owners are going to 'dispose' of our club?

I remember, Wivel, many years ago, you used to refer to the concept of learning from history and history is all we have to go on, so far, when judging the intent of GI.

They may not yet be evidence that they have malevolent intentions regarding TUFC but neither is there any evidence that their intentions are benevolent, other than a fluffy interview with David Thomas, who judging by his podcast seems convinced, but then it is much easier for him to pretend everything is ok, rather than have to actually do some journalistic digging.

For GI it is likely that TUFC are a means to end to making profit somewhere along the line. Decisions are likely to be made in terms of the impact it has on GI rather than TUFC. If it suits GI to close the club then they will. If it suits GI to invest in the club, then they will. However, the concerns of TUFC are always likely to play second fiddle to the concerns of GI. Is that something long-term we really want?

by **Lloyder5** » 23 Dec 2016, 17:01

Like many I was angry when the announcement was made. I felt let down by the Board and, I guess, I was stirred up by the rumours of the Chinese bid. I never once thought about not attending the Boxing Day game because I felt that it was the opportunity to show show how much the club matters to us all. On reflection I feel there is little choice but to take a watching brief with GI; get involved with the consultation if it happens. Meantime, if there was ever a time to join the Trust to create an strong, independent institution to monitor to consultation and subsequent 5-year plan then now is the time.

by **GullatPlainmoor** » 23 Dec 2016, 13:22

forevertufc wrote:
There isn't any evidence to suggest the new owners are going to 'dispose' of our club. no body is Like Edmund falling for the Turkish Delight in Narnia, and to honest here its getting BEYOND boring constantly having to post, post, post and re-post, we ALL know the reputation of G.I, peoples concerns are justified. All some are saying is give them a chance.

Those who top coin a phrase posted by someone else, who've allowed them selves to be swept away on this wave of hysteria, are driving themselves at 100MPH straight into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Three months down the line when there's 800 in the ground, and 1200 staying away or protesting, what does anyone think the next action of our new owners will be ? No, no, no they wont say, ok, you fans really do care about your club, so we're going to guarantee the future of Plainmoor and here's £10 million investment into the club.

What they'll do, is what any hardened business would do, except they'd made a bad business decision, recoup as much of their losses, write of the rest, cut and run. Then us fans really will have been proved right by our own actions, principles never put food on the table, it's beyond me how anyone can not see how withdrawing your support is futile and lead to one ending.

by **Modgull** » 23 Dec 2016, 13:14

I shall be there and will take as many others along as possible. Agree that a boycott would just bring about what we have all feared - the asset stripping and disposal of our Club. It is a time to get behind the new owners, Nicho and the players.

by **Gloomy Gull** » 23 Dec 2016, 12:10

forevertufc wrote:There isn't any evidence to suggest the new owners are going to 'dispose' of our club. no body is Like Edmund falling for the Turkish Delight in Narnia, and to honest here its getting BEYOND boring constantly having to post, post, post and re-post, we ALL know the reputation of G.I, peoples concerns are justified. All some are saying is give them a chance.

Those who top coin a phrase posted by someone else, who've allowed them selves to be swept away on this wave of hysteria, are driving themselves at 100MPH straight into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Three months down the line when there's 800 in the ground, and 1200 staying away or protesting, what does anyone think the next action of our new owners will be ? No, no, no they wont say, ok, you fans really do care about your club, so we're going to guarantee the future of Plainmoor and here's £10 million investment into the club.

What they'll do, is what any hardened business would do, except they'd made a bad business decision, recoup as much of their losses, write of the rest, cut and run. Then us fans really will have been proved right by our own actions, principles never put food on the table, it's beyond me how anyone can not see how withdrawing your support is futile and lead to one ending.

: We are highly unlikely to be driven out of business or Plainmoor in the next couple of months ....so let's all just wait until we have some ACTUAL facts about OUR club's future or ACTUAL actions to OUR club, positive or negative, to review and then assess what may or may not be needed.

by **Dave** » 23 Dec 2016, 11:39

There isn't any evidence to suggest the new owners are going to 'dispose' of our club. no body is Like Edmund falling for the Turkish Delight in Narnia, and to honest here its getting BEYOND boring constantly having to post, post, post and re-post, we ALL know the reputation of G.I, peoples concerns are justified. All some are saying is give them a chance.

Those who top coin a phrase posted by someone else, who've allowed them selves to be swept away on this wave of hysteria, are driving themselves at 100MPH straight into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Three months down the line when there's 800 in the ground, and 1200 staying away or protesting, what does anyone think the next action of our new owners will be ? No, no, no they wont say, ok, you fans really do care about your club, so we're going to guarantee the future of Plainmoor and here's £10 million investment into the club.

What they'll do, is what any hardened business would do, except they'd made a bad business decision, recoup as much of their losses, write of the rest, cut and run. Then us fans really will have been proved right by our own actions, principles never put food on the table, it's beyond me how anyone can not see how withdrawing your support is futile and lead to one ending.

by **wivelgull** » 23 Dec 2016, 11:02

But where is the EVIDENCE that the new owners are going to 'dispose' of our club?

by **Kit_robin** » 23 Dec 2016, 10:35

hector wrote:Like Edmund falling for the Turkish Delight in Narnia, falling for one nicely worded interview, with a compliant local reporter, an interview totally devoid of any detail - just vague sentiment - is folly. Supporters take their eye off the ball at their peril. Just remember, these property developers are here because they want our ground NOT because they want to lead TUFC to promotion. TUFC is a means to an end and people shouldn't be fooled.

Correct. But in this case boycotting would just play into their hands. If they are as badly intentioned as you think, then falling crowds would see them rubbing their hands with glee as they would be able to say no one cared.

Most of us have already paid anyway, so I actually think that turning up in force and showing them that their are literally thousands of people who give a shit is more effective. The a ount of money we pull in through the gate will hardly line their pockets, and the leas money they have to put in to prop us up the longer it would be before we get forced out of business, giving more time for any other interested groups (TUST) to form an adequate response.

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