Torquay United Fans Forum

Given Cox's preference for no keeper on the bench then yes, loaning out Lavercombe probably would be a good idea. But. With no youth team and literally no other keeper on the books what happens if Spiess is injured on the day of a match? Too late to recall then and we would be going in to a game with an outfield player in goal.

Just picking up from the Eastleigh thread. My preference at the start of the season would have been to play Dan Lavercombe on the strength of his good performances at the end of last season. Paul Cox opted for Fabian Speiss, presumably because of he has had more match experience, and you can't argue with that. Speiss has played reasonably well up until the Cheltenham match where he didn't exactly cover himself with glory. However, it wouldn't be fair to drop him on the basis of one match - he's still learning as is Dan. But where does that leave Lavercombe? The only match he has played in during the first month of the season is a behind doors 'friendly' against Argyle which isn't going to help his development much. Personally, I think it would be in his best interest, and the club's interest, if he was loaned out, with an immediate recall clause if necessary, to at least a Conference South side so that he can gain experience by playing regularly. He's too good a talent to be left kicking around doing nothing. Any thoughts?

Although ultimately it's always the keeper's performance in games like Saturday's that claim the headlines but for me it's the manner in which we were well beaten and if the truth be told there should have been a similar loss to Woking the game before.
Our tactics appear to be to hoof the ball upfield to two strikers who play miles apart, neither of whom has had a decent shot on target between them.
Seems at the moment our better performances are away from Plainmoor.
There are some decent players in the squad who aren't being given game time.

Scott Brehaut wrote:Advocating the dropping of a keeper after one poor game is like calling for the dropping of a forward after not scoring in a game.

Shall we start dropping defenders if they lose the man they were marking, and that results in a goal? Shall we start dropping wingers if they fail to get their cross into the box?

This club has been through so much sh*t recently, I'm just glad that we have one to support still to be honest. Anybody who thinks that we are suddenly going to be walking the league, or thinking that the players we have are not going to make mistakes are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Exactly, we should back the manager because for the time being he will support the players he has selected. I think he is expecting a significant improvement this afternoon. If not it will be an interesting discussion with the DOF tomorrow

Advocating the dropping of a keeper after one poor game is like calling for the dropping of a forward after not scoring in a game.

Shall we start dropping defenders if they lose the man they were marking, and that results in a goal? Shall we start dropping wingers if they fail to get their cross into the box?

This club has been through so much shit recently, I'm just glad that we have one to support still to be honest. Anybody who thinks that we are suddenly going to be walking the league, or thinking that the players we have are not going to make mistakes are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Phillips did look assured, however Speiss is copping a lot of flak for some poor defending. Check out the photo in the Cheltenham rag, see how far away Exodus is from Downes for the first goal. From what I saw at the match he was given the responsibility of marking Downes. Not that I would wish to drop Ex but he had a role in 2 goals. So far though he has been pretty good. Likewise Speiss, I would expect the manager to back both but expect a significant ,improvement

Lavercombe should be given his chance - he showed amazing calmness at the end of last season, in contrast to the evident nervousness of Spiess whenever the ball is in the air.
Shot-stopping is not enough, the defence needs assurance behind them; alas, Spiess is not giving that now,neither when coming off his line nor when attempting to take any high balls cleanly. He also tends to be ball watching at dead-ball situations instead of clocking or anticipating the opposition movements.
There was an enormous contrast between him and Phillips in the Cheltenham goal, and I really look forward to Lavercombe progressing his career if only he can get the opportunity.

What a difference a week makes.

forevertufc wrote: It only works both ways to a small point. Half an hour after the games finished no one remembers that golden opportunity the striker missed, a week later fans still talk about the mistake by the keeper that cost a point or all three.

Very true..

Gullscorer wrote:Works both ways; just as even decent keepers make an occasional mistake to concede a goal, how many good strikers have we seen who sometimes miss a golden opportunity to score a goal which could have altered the course of a game?

It only works both ways to a small point. Half an hour after the games finished no one remembers that golden opportunity the striker missed, a week later fans still talk about the mistake by the keeper that cost a point or all three.

Works both ways; just as even decent keepers make an occasional mistake to concede a goal, how many good strikers have we seen who sometimes miss a golden opportunity to score a goal which could have altered the course of a game? Speiss is the more experienced keeper at Plainmoor and is playing well enough to keep a regular place in the team. Lavercombe will certainly get his chances, and I venture to suggest that before he reaches Speiss's age he will have moved to a bigger club than ours. Which is not to say that Speiss could not eventually do the same..

Don't think there's any doubting Spiess has the odd bad error in his game, could be the one thing that's held him back, at 21 years old still a very young keeper, however, from what I've seen of him to date, he's done a fine job in goal for us, shot stopping as good as anything I've seen in Torquay shirt, gets off his line quick, just as he should, dives and holds the ball when he should, dives and parry's the ball when he should, does have the odd flap, but at least is prepared to come and get crosses.

By all accounts should have done better with Grimsby's first goal, so what. Saw a Championship keeper spill one Saturday right at the feet of the opposition striker who gladly returned with interest right into the back of the net, keepers make mistakes and there normally fatal, unlike their outfield colleagues, we can't go changing the keeper every time he lets a poor goal in, not that anyone's suggested that.

Playing with out a keeper on the bench is a risk, remember Sills FGR away. As for Lavercombe's development, that's a tricky one being honest, you want a young keeper playing games, however they both can't play and chopping and changing will do neither any good, keepers need a proper run of games, my only suggestion would be if the club can't play more reserve friendlies, and PC is going to continue not putting a keeper on the match day bench, get Lavercombe out loan somewhere, where by, he will play.

Sometimes clubs play their 'second' keeper in cup matches. Perhaps Lavercombe will get a chance in FA Trophy games unless needed for other reasons of course.

just m y thoughts but i think speiss has done avery good job so far, made a mistake i know i saturday but other than that has made some super saves since he has been with us, looks assured and confident, im sure lavercombe will get his chance at some stage, im just glad we have two decent keepers.

Pleased with month 1 of Cox and Ramshaw

Not having a spare goalie on the bench at games is something we haven't done as much before but seems to be working ok. PC gets on with his subs when the 4th official doesn't nob up and a full bench = options

Do we have an outfield player who is designated deputy keeper ? Probably Exodus...

Wonder how this will help development of young Lavercombe who was one of the bright lights of the past annus horribulus. Speiss has stepped up and done ok but hope we are bringing Lavercombe along also