Torquay United Fans Forum

by **arcadia** » 06 Jan 2015, 22:08

Our problem is inexperience from the manager down to the players in the last two games we've drawn where we could have won. We get in the lead and carry on trying to score in the last ten minutes instead of passing and keeping the ball. There are times in the game when you should not put crosses in as you give chances for the opposition chances to get the ball and put it back in your half these are the things that professional footballers should learn it's how to win a game.
I have never seen such a shambles like I saw on Sunday it was like watching a bunch of amateurs, headless chickens

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by **arcadia** » 06 Jan 2015, 22:08

Our problem is inexperience from the manager down to the players in the last two games we've drawn where we could have won. We get in the lead and carry on trying to score in the last ten minutes instead of passing and keeping the ball. There are times in the game when you should not put crosses in as you give chances for the opposition chances to get the ball and put it back in your half these are the things that professional footballers should learn it's how to win a game.
I have never seen such a shambles like I saw on Sunday it was like watching a bunch of amateurs, headless chickens

.

by **Dave** » 06 Jan 2015, 19:33

I do get poster are coming from by suggesting an extra midfielder, but, with this team it doesn't work an it's been proven. Lincoln away, 1 up front extra midfielder getting roundly stuffed by 10 men, until CH went 4-4-2 ran out comfortable winners.

Recently away at Welling played a similar formation and the team struggled, both commentators agreed our team looked far more comfortable and happy playing 4-4-2, we played 4-4-2 away at Rovers and were in complete control of that game, formations really are not the problem, it's the mentality of the players that is, and that possible is down the manager, our players can seem to motivate them selves for more than 1 game in 5.

by **Trojan 67** » 06 Jan 2015, 19:16

Formations, basically, are mind games. Then there's kiddology.

No one kids a kidder, kiddo - just ask Winkey(

)

A team plays two up front. Why defend with four at the back?

They have four at the back. Why is there only two up front?

Football really is a simple game. Go to Plainmoor on Saturday and watch simpletons coached by simpletons play as complicated as it gets.

by **Sunnysideup** » 06 Jan 2015, 18:15

PL21gull wrote:As noted elsewhere, our formation is far too predictable and rigid; if we want to stop the opposition scoring why not keep the ball? If we are being overrun in midfield why not bulk up the midfield where we demand far too much from just two central players - this would then provide a holding player in front of the back 4 and enable our captain to get forward more effectively where he is likely to hurt the opposition.
If it is so obvious to mere fans that we need the midfield to pass the ball to one another rather than everyone just hoofing it, why is it not so obvious to our professional management team?
More leadership required both from the touchline and on the park.

I would suggest it's been the same problem for the last two seasons since EoK departed. Currently, two, dare I say, fairly lightweight centre midfielders on heavy pitches is just asking for a struggle, hence the more pressure that gets heaped on the defence

by **Modgull** » 06 Jan 2015, 17:15

PL21gull wrote:Amateur sums it up; how on earth do we expect to hold onto a lead when, after expending much effort in winning the ball, we just give it back to a team which had easily played through us in the second half and should have scored earlier from any of the chances made.
As noted elsewhere, our formation is far too predictable and rigid; if we want to stop the opposition scoring why not keep the ball? If we are being overrun in midfield why not bulk up the midfield where we demand far too much from just two central players - this would then provide a holding player in front of the back 4 and enable our captain to get forward more effectively where he is likely to hurt the opposition.
If it is so obvious to mere fans that we need the midfield to pass the ball to one another rather than everyone just hoofing it, why is it not so obvious to our professional management team?
More leadership required both from the touchline and on the park.

by **taxilady** » 06 Jan 2015, 09:38

PL21gull wrote:Amateur sums it up; how on earth do we expect to hold onto a lead when, after expending much effort in winning the ball, we just give it back to a team which had easily played through us in the second half and should have scored earlier from any of the chances made.
As noted elsewhere, our formation is far too predictable and rigid; if we want to stop the opposition scoring why not keep the ball? If we are being overrun in midfield why not bulk up the midfield where we demand far too much from just two central players - this would then provide a holding player in front of the back 4 and enable our captain to get forward more effectively where he is likely to hurt the opposition.
If it is so obvious to mere fans that we need the midfield to pass the ball to one another rather than everyone just hoofing it, why is it not so obvious to our professional management team?
More leadership required both from the touchline and on the park.

by **PL21gull** » 06 Jan 2015, 09:34

Amateur sums it up; how on earth do we expect to hold onto a lead when, after expending much effort in winning the ball, we just give it back to a team which had easily played through us in the second half and should have scored earlier from any of the chances made.
As noted elsewhere, our formation is far too predictable and rigid; if we want to stop the opposition scoring why not keep the ball? If we are being overrun in midfield why not bulk up the midfield where we demand far too much from just two central players - this would then provide a holding player in front of the back 4 and enable our captain to get forward more effectively where he is likely to hurt the opposition.
If it is so obvious to mere fans that we need the midfield to pass the ball to one another rather than everyone just hoofing it, why is it not so obvious to our professional management team?
More leadership required both from the touchline and on the park.

by **Burnhamgull** » 06 Jan 2015, 00:10

CH can blame Ajala but in the first half Bowman missed an open goal (albeit whilst in a offside position) so you can understand Ajala thinking "I'll have a go, he'll probably miss again".

Like Brucie, I can't understand why Bowman doesn't go off. He has progressively got worse for me as the season has gone on. His touch is poor, he doesn't bully defenders and generally I'd rather see Briscoe play alongside Yeoman for a couple of games. Drop Acheampong for Yeoman and give Chappell a run of games.

It's been a year of CH, some are saying give him time, let him build his own team and that's a weak argument in my opinion BUT after a year he should have made some impact on the style of play at least. Incidently, isn't most of the first team HIS team?

One final note, I took the kids on Sunday. Hardly inspiring for them to watch so I doubt they'll go again this season but the queue for tickets to the family stand is ridiculous. Two people serving......one takes the money, one hands over the ticket(s)......it has to be seen to be believed. Amateur.

by **tomogull** » 06 Jan 2015, 00:01

brucie wrote:Its been an awful Christmas. We could and should have had half a dozen more points than we ended up with. Clear foul on Cruise before their equaliser.
If Hargreaves is blaming Ajala then fair enough but he should have tempered that with saying that Ajala was excellent for the rest of the game.
He really puts others to shame - with his attitude and work rate.
I do actually wonder anout our training methods - just as before the Bristol Rovers game our players seem to just lollop around the pitch doing not much of bugger all in the pre match routines. Hodges throws up few balls for the four defenders to head and the rest of the players seem to stand around with their hands in their pockets.
Compare that to Alfreton whose routines seem far more structured.
For me the mistake that Hargreaves made was not taking off Bowman who looked as though he had spent all night on the piss with Briscoe.
Yeoman for Bowman seemed the obvious choice - fresh legs to hold the ball up front. Yet putting Yeoman out on the right wing seemed pointless.

I agree with much of what Brucie has posted especially about Ajala who would have been my MOTM if he hadn't made the wrong decision by going for goal instead of passing to Bowman. In the first half, both Chappell and Ajala put across inviting crosses but neither Bowman nor Ofori gambled. I know there are some players and managers who would like a mid-season break. It seems that Bowman has decided to put this into practice already because he's done bugger all over the Christmas matches (I wasn't at the away Bristol game where I understand he was a bit better).

Alfreton's tactics worked like a dream for them. Defend and slow the game up in the first half and then attack us in the second half. Yet again we can't kill off a team at the foot of the table. We are 10th in the league but Lincoln, Gateshead, Dover and even Wrexham in 16th position have games in hand which could take them above us (Wrexham are 5 points below us with 4 games in hand). We huffed and puffed again yesterday and both Ajala and Chappell set up inviting chances but apart from the ball being cleared off the line, we didn't really look like scoring in the first half. We played some neat football at times but we were abysmal up front. Bowman is not the answer as a goalscorer - Robin Stubbs must have been watching and wondering how the hell he is described as a 'striker'.

by **brucie** » 05 Jan 2015, 22:44

Its been an awful Christmas. We could and should have had half a dozen more points than we ended up with. Clear foul on Cruise before their equaliser.
If Hargreaves is blaming Ajala then fair enough but he should have tempered that with saying that Ajala was excellent for the rest of the game.
He really puts others to shame - with his attitude and work rate.
I do actually wonder anout our training methods - just as before the Bristol Rovers game our players seem to just lollop around the pitch doing not much of bugger all in the pre match routines. Hodges throws up few balls for the four defenders to head and the rest of the players seem to stand around with their hands in their pockets.
Compare that to Alfreton whose routines seem far more structured.
For me the mistake that Hargreaves made was not taking off Bowman who looked as though he had spent all night on the piss with Briscoe.
Yeoman for Bowman seemed the obvious choice - fresh legs to hold the ball up front. Yet putting Yeoman out on the right wing seemed pointless.

by **Dave_Pougher** » 05 Jan 2015, 22:17

Unbeaten in three.,

by **nickbrod** » 05 Jan 2015, 20:47

Need to beat Bromley on Saturday then especially as a cup run will generate much needed income.

by **tommyg** » 05 Jan 2015, 19:14

lucy6lucy wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30681860

Tad harsh to blame and single him out for losing. Why didn't CH single out rice when he has cost us multiple points. Not happy with his handling of this

First sign that Hargreaves is cracking under the pressure. One thing he has picked up from Buckle is that he loves an excuse. Referees, injuries, budget, training ground, red cards etc. Ajala made a mistake but he's certainly not the first this season. Hargreaves has made a number of tactical errors but never holds his hands up. I've always supported him as manager and will continue to do so, but for the first time I am questioning whether he is the right man to take us forward. He's been in the job for just over a year now and whilst he is still lumbered with Knill's overpaid signings, he's still had plenty of time to stamp his own authority on the team.

His biggest weakness is his lack of 'Plan B'. We are too predictable in our shape and formation. Every week it's 4-4-2 and when it's not working he struggles to change things during the match. We're over-reliant on Young. When he's not at the races we struggle badly to create chances and would be quite near the relegation zone without him. We concede far too many goals from set-pieces and this still hasn't been addressed. We can't play out from the back but Hargreaves wants his defenders to pass the ball about in dangerous areas of the pitch. We need to play to our strengths.

I will give him credit for his signings which gives me hope for next season once we've got rid of the dead wood. Young was obviously a great piece of business and he's brought in some talented younger players who lack experience but have the potential to be very good. I actually think Bowman and Briscoe have let him down a little considering they are 'proven' players at this level. They have been far too inconsistent. Bowman frustrates the life out of me and misses too many chances and Briscoe is overweight. He might have a stocky build but he's still carrying too much timber.

Hargreaves said when he took the job that he would keep us up or take us back up. He failed with the first objective and I'm not sure he can fulfil the second. I desperately want to see him succeed but we are dropping like a stone and will be closer to the relegation zone than the play-offs once everyone else has caught up with their games in hand. The biggest positive from yesterday was the attendance. Considering how bad we have been lately and were playing Alfreton, I was shocked we attracted over 2,000. That will change soon though if things don't improve.

by **lucy6lucy** » 05 Jan 2015, 18:37

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30681860

Tad harsh to blame and single him out for losing. Why didn't CH single out rice when he has cost us multiple points. Not happy with his handling of this

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