Torquay United Fans Forum

SBP wrote:If i remember correctly Benyon had suffered a broken nose and was touch and go for that game. He played and was targeted within the first few minutes which was no surprise. You cannot blame Benyon, i dont think he should have started due to his injury but Buckle made the call and it didnt pay off

I don 't think Samuel was blaming Benyon. He was blaming the decision to play one of the smallest guys we had up front on his own in a game that had we been more positive and gone for a win could have seen us in a much better financial position in the months/years following...

If i remember correctly Benyon had suffered a broken nose and was touch and go for that game. He played and was targeted within the first few minutes which was no surprise. You cannot blame Benyon, i dont think he should have started due to his injury but Buckle made the call and it didnt pay off

samuel wrote:No, wasn't blaming Elliot, he tried his hardest, it was the tactics. Agree with the comments about Crawley and their manager and I am not knocking the players who tried.

Fair enough mate.

samuel wrote:It all went wrong on the 29th January 2011. Putting Elliot Benyon up front on his own against four 6ft plus defenders in the 4th Round FA Cup tie against Crawley. We were never going to win. How much money did we lose as a result of not playing Manchester United? At least a million? Sickening.

If we had beaten Crawley we would never have been drawn against Man Utd. Those things never happen to Torquay.

No, wasn't blaming Elliot, he tried his hardest, it was the tactics. Agree with the comments about Crawley and their manager and I am not knocking the players who tried.

Fonda wrote:Sorry, we lost against Crawley because Elliott Benyon was up-front on his own? That was probably one of many, many reasons. Benners has had a lot of criticism in recent times (some of it justified). But let's not blame him for losing us '£3m' (no idea where that figure has come come), and the current plight of the club.

I agree, we can't blame one game for our decline. Besides, there were many reasons why we lost that game. Our own team's cowardice in the face of a very hostile Crawley side, one cheating fat bastard who we all know and despise and a referee not fit to sweep the terraces.

For me, if there is any one event that comes to mind that it was Martin King's illness. Appallingly managed by the Board and the precursor to many other bad decisions. I won't say that Lingy's illness caused our fall, but the way it was managed was symptomatic of crass, piss poor management at Board level.

Sorry, we lost against Crawley because Elliott Benyon was up-front on his own? That was probably one of many, many reasons. Benners has had a lot of criticism in recent times (some of it justified). But let's not blame him for losing us '£3m' (no idea where that figure has come come), and the current plight of the club.

It all went wrong on the 29th January 2011. Putting Elliot Benyon up front on his own against four 6ft plus defenders in the 4th Round FA Cup tie against Crawley. We were never going to win. How much money did we lose as a result of not playing Manchester United? At least a million? Sickening.

Things were going wrong before Ling left. We wouldn't have dispensed with him otherwise. Did things get worse after he left? Possibly. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time, it was probably the right decision. Lets not re-write history.

My firm belief is that if Hargreaves had been the assistant to Colin Lee the club would be in a better position than it is now but I doubt if the club could run to them. Whoever decided to pay the manager three times as much as the players need their head examined. If you can't afford you don't have.
In hindsight Harrop's selection for his one game in charge was a well balanced side but I understand that he asked Mansell and look where he's gone.

..........When the Bristow family won the lottery and because of their devotion to TUFC agreed to invest in the club.

My perception is that from that point forward, until June this year, the Board Members did not extend the necessary level of diligence to the financial performance of the club, in the expectation that "Thea will cover the spend" .

Could it be a carefree attitude with someone else's money was a contributing factor to Alex Rowe etc. leaving ....they were uncomfortable with the machinations?

I do not blame Thea or Paul, I believe they were ordinary people who were suddenly blessed with an extraordinary amount of money but did not have the business acumen to deal with the windfall and change of circumstance and have been badly advised/let down/poached upon by others with more business savvy.

I appreciate the argument that if they had not come along we have no idea where we may be now - possibly with Bateson at the helm with all that may have brought? Although despite the turbulent relationship between MB and the supporters, he is receiving some belated praise for running a financially stable business......would it have been worse? Possibly, if he had looked to sell again to a Robert's type character.

The problem with all this, is that you will NEVER really know. Because you have limited information. You don't really know the relationship dynamics behind the scenes. You don't really know, and I mean really know the financial situation over the past x years, some people at the club probably don't even know, only the accountants.

Learning from your mistakes, who really does do that in reality, that's why as humans we continually make mistakes, and don't tell me none of you haven't.

look, just one simple example, choosing a new manager. You will never know if they will be successful at your club or not, its a punt in the end, Mike Bateson alluded to that when he contributed on the forum. Lets just say you have a choice between manager a and b, and more likely it would also be c d and e.

Manager a has a cv that has some successes (which he highlights of course) and a couple of failures but is termed "experienced". He will want a good wack, lets say 120k and a rolling contract.

Manager b its his first job in management, got lots of enthusiasm and is a hard worker. He wants 75k and a 2 year deal

Mmmmmmm...... If either come off your ok. But.... the probability is that they wont. if a doesn't your f8cked. But probably 'a' slightly more chance of success than 'b'

I tell you, that's a hard decision at the time, without hindsight etc etc. Fans seem to think that's its piss easy and the directors who are mainly successful business men just cant make the right decision. Ok you choose manager a because the fans are calling for that. Then you find out that a couple of teams in your league have got new investment from Russian Billionaires, ah that's a problem, he better be shit hot this new manager a then. In the end the choice is based on probability and how much you want to gamble.

Yawn. How do you know the manager didn't go to the chairman?? You jusr presume he didn't yet somehow both the players you mentioned did receive offers. Those offers may well have been derogatory but the figures weren't governed by the manager.

Don't blame the manager for the inadequacy of the board.

The Board needed a 'football man' when Colin Lee left to advise not only them but also CH learning his trade. Not saying we would not still be in the Conference but I reckon we would have made a better fight of retaining our League status.
If/when we have new ownership I hope the new Board find and employ such a person.

This is interesting reading and I think that it's down to a lack of leadership at the top, someone who controls the purse strings. The club went out of control and that comes from the top and the blame points at the directors who have taken their eye off the ball. The last few managers signed some bad players and their tactics were poor as well, it needed sorting a couple of years ago but a change was made and they then let it happen again. I think it's sad that Martin Ling departed but there was no option.
Ives and Lavercombe should have been signed after their first games it was obvious that they were good enough, this should have been spotted early. If they were signed early the interest in them would not matter now, the managers experience was lacking at this time. He should have gone to the Chairman then.
These two were special, yes they will make mistakes but will be good enough to hold their own and progress.