by hector » 28 Apr 2014, 20:52
CP Gull wrote:In truth, I really don't know what to think about next season. The make up of the Conference Premier League next season should hold no fear for us, but by the same token we don't even have the attraction of Exeter and Oxford for company. Like others have said, the club may just as well close the away end permanently next season as the likelihood of any opposing team bringing more than a couple of hundred is pretty remote I would imagine and in the vast majority of cases we will probably be able to count the away fans quite easily and quite quickly! I like the idea of turning the away stand over to home fans though as this might just improve the atmosphere in the ground a little bit. No doubt the financial implications i.e. cost of stewarding etc will put paid to any such notion though I expect.
What sort of team we will put togetherI really don't know but when you cast your mind back to those two years in the Conference we built that squad by quite simply bringing in proven, experienced players who knew the level and were very often some of the best players from teams at that level. After all, we managed to persuade Hargreaves to sign, we pinched the (then) best left back in the League from FGR in Nicholson, a proven striker/goalscorer at that level in Tim Sills, one of York City's best players and one of the best midfielders in the division in Nicky Wroe, we took Exeter's captain and top scorer from them in Todd and Phillips and even nicked young Elliot Benyon from under their noses when he was all set to sign for them and even persuaded Wayne Carlisle to pass up on the chance of a return to the League with them, choosing to sign up for a shot at another promotion out of the Conference with us. We even managed to pinch Matt Green from the "mighty" Oxford United and even though it didn't work out for him here, what a signing that could and should have been, likewise Muzzy Carayol (now a regular in the Championship) and young Mark Ellis also went on to earn us some money eventually. We also had one of the best keepers to play at that level at that time in Michael Poke from Southampton and still hung on to a promising young centre half in Chris Robertson even though we had just got relegated out of the League (another one we were to profit quite nicely from) ... what chance of hanging on to Krystian Pearce in similar circumstances this time around I wonder?
The thing is, the situation was a lot, lot different back them and I really cannot see us being able to repeat the sort of signings we made back them. It is far more likely that we will go down the road of young, untried pros released from bigger clubs. That's not to say that won't work of course but it is far more risky by way of a strategy for success. By buying up some of the best players in that League the last time around we pretty much guaranteed some sort of success and of course even helped to weaken the opposition at the same time.
The interest in the team and the opposition will surely drop dramatically next season (at least we had Exeter last time around) and inevitably the gates will drop, unless we really do get off to a flyer. The budget will almost certainly have to be slashed and may well be considerably lower than it was back then and all the while it seems that the youth set up is still struggling to flourish in the way that we might have hoped it would by now. With McKenzie gone and Thompson likely to follow soon, we still only have Yeoman to show for all the undoubted efforts put in by those in charge and only time will tell whether young Hutchings or Sullivan come to anything.
I know that certain individuals courted controversy,but when you think back to the structure we had in place back then, with the massively ambitious Buckle at the helm, ably assisted by North and with John Milton scouring the country scouting talent to improve us, with Colin Lee providing the vital link between the Board and the Management Team, with a "proper" Chairman and Leader in Alex Rowe and with the late, great Paul Bristow RIP with his massive lottery win burning a hole in his pocket we had real genuine reasons for optimism back then and the level of interest for the opening game against Grays Athletic (remember them?) was so great that we had nearly 4000 in the ground on that opening day ... we will surely be lucky to have half that amount this time around.
Of course, all is not doom and gloom, but that line up of Bristow, Rowe, Lee, Buckle, North and Milton all driving us on was an extremely powerful one, the like of which we may quite possibly never see again. We need to rebuild both on and off the field and we need proper leadership too both on and off the field, something which has been sadly lacking I feel over the course of the last couple of years.
Of course, the sort of structure we had in place back then and the sort of playing squad we were able to assemble cost a lot of money and whilst hopefully we will at least have a far better infrastructure in place than we did back then I guess there just isn't the sort of money left anymore to try and attempt to remodel the club on similar lines this time around. We will just have to hope that Chris Hargreaves has the knack of finding some gems, diamonds in the rough, that we can develop and sell on for decent money ...but it won't be easy that's for sure.
A very good post - you always manage to post what I think, so eloquently.
Like you may have thought - the last time we went down, it didn't even feel so bad to be down because Exeter were already there. Everything was exciting in a strange way. It almost felt like the Conference received more coverage than League 2 at the time. Getting promoted felt a little like getting promoted to obscurity.
I bought the Non-League Paper yesterday. Just to start getting used to teams and structures I hadn't thought about in years. It hasn't changed and it won't be long before our 5 years back in the league, are viewed in history as a bit of a blip, a spell of over achievement, in the way some of us perhaps feel when looking at historical league tables of Torquay's time in the old Division 3 in the 1960s.
Like Matt and one or two others have pointed out and suggest, the notion that being a league club is 'punching above our weight' is a misnomer, peddled by Mike Bateson for years to keep the masses happy with perennial struggling, a notion that was happily gobbled up because '
Mike saved the club'.
What it did do is sow the seeds for what has happened. Probably everyone knew that at some point we would go down again. Perhaps not in the wasteful, unnecessary way we have done. But our expectations have been so demeaned and dampened that avoiding relegation is now seen as success.
It never used to be this way. When I started watching Torquay, we were never troubled by the bottom 4 (applying for re-election, as it was known then), we were a mid-table (and had they existed) play-off position, challenging team. We may have had a reputation for being crap but essentially from the end of World War 2 and for the next roughly 45-50 years (bar 2 under Webb), until Bateson started lowering everyone's expectations, the thing we were not, was 4th divison fodder.
Finishing 17th, well clear of the bottom 4, in 1981, got Mike Green the sack. He'd get a medal nowadays for achieving such dizzy heights!!!!
It is not so much being in the Conference for the football and the teams, that bothers me so much, it is the lost funding that I fear and what that does long-term for the club. But then I suppose none of the other teams get it either and Torquay United should be one of the top 5/6 clubs in that league based on attendances, potential etc, so whilst there may be some novelty playing lots of new teams, it will soon wear off if we are under-performing - which, not challenging for the play-offs will certainly be.
But as CP Gull, puts it so well, the last time we were set up for it. We even had a General Manager in Darryl Batten - fresh from the Grand Hotel or somewhere. The whole set-up was in a different league to anything we had seen before. And whereas last time, we really did seem to be the big fish, glamour team of the division (or was that just the way Setanta made it seem?) it probably won't quite be so next year.
We'll see.
Certainly, there is a lot the club need to do to make me think of renewing my season-ticket. I seem to remember that the early-bird offer was extended last year but with it finishing in 11 days or so, there isn't going to be an enormous amount of time for fans to see enough intent from the club in terms of signings etc, to persuade fans.
The last thing I would want to do, is jump for the early bird offer and then find out that we cannot afford to sign anyone and the youth team will be playing.
[quote="CP Gull"]In truth, I really don't know what to think about next season. The make up of the Conference Premier League next season should hold no fear for us, but by the same token we don't even have the attraction of Exeter and Oxford for company. Like others have said, the club may just as well close the away end permanently next season as the likelihood of any opposing team bringing more than a couple of hundred is pretty remote I would imagine and in the vast majority of cases we will probably be able to count the away fans quite easily and quite quickly! I like the idea of turning the away stand over to home fans though as this might just improve the atmosphere in the ground a little bit. No doubt the financial implications i.e. cost of stewarding etc will put paid to any such notion though I expect.
What sort of team we will put togetherI really don't know but when you cast your mind back to those two years in the Conference we built that squad by quite simply bringing in proven, experienced players who knew the level and were very often some of the best players from teams at that level. After all, we managed to persuade Hargreaves to sign, we pinched the (then) best left back in the League from FGR in Nicholson, a proven striker/goalscorer at that level in Tim Sills, one of York City's best players and one of the best midfielders in the division in Nicky Wroe, we took Exeter's captain and top scorer from them in Todd and Phillips and even nicked young Elliot Benyon from under their noses when he was all set to sign for them and even persuaded Wayne Carlisle to pass up on the chance of a return to the League with them, choosing to sign up for a shot at another promotion out of the Conference with us. We even managed to pinch Matt Green from the "mighty" Oxford United and even though it didn't work out for him here, what a signing that could and should have been, likewise Muzzy Carayol (now a regular in the Championship) and young Mark Ellis also went on to earn us some money eventually. We also had one of the best keepers to play at that level at that time in Michael Poke from Southampton and still hung on to a promising young centre half in Chris Robertson even though we had just got relegated out of the League (another one we were to profit quite nicely from) ... what chance of hanging on to Krystian Pearce in similar circumstances this time around I wonder?
The thing is, the situation was a lot, lot different back them and I really cannot see us being able to repeat the sort of signings we made back them. It is far more likely that we will go down the road of young, untried pros released from bigger clubs. That's not to say that won't work of course but it is far more risky by way of a strategy for success. By buying up some of the best players in that League the last time around we pretty much guaranteed some sort of success and of course even helped to weaken the opposition at the same time.
The interest in the team and the opposition will surely drop dramatically next season (at least we had Exeter last time around) and inevitably the gates will drop, unless we really do get off to a flyer. The budget will almost certainly have to be slashed and may well be considerably lower than it was back then and all the while it seems that the youth set up is still struggling to flourish in the way that we might have hoped it would by now. With McKenzie gone and Thompson likely to follow soon, we still only have Yeoman to show for all the undoubted efforts put in by those in charge and only time will tell whether young Hutchings or Sullivan come to anything.
I know that certain individuals courted controversy,but when you think back to the structure we had in place back then, with the massively ambitious Buckle at the helm, ably assisted by North and with John Milton scouring the country scouting talent to improve us, with Colin Lee providing the vital link between the Board and the Management Team, with a "proper" Chairman and Leader in Alex Rowe and with the late, great Paul Bristow RIP with his massive lottery win burning a hole in his pocket we had real genuine reasons for optimism back then and the level of interest for the opening game against Grays Athletic (remember them?) was so great that we had nearly 4000 in the ground on that opening day ... we will surely be lucky to have half that amount this time around.
Of course, all is not doom and gloom, but that line up of Bristow, Rowe, Lee, Buckle, North and Milton all driving us on was an extremely powerful one, the like of which we may quite possibly never see again. We need to rebuild both on and off the field and we need proper leadership too both on and off the field, something which has been sadly lacking I feel over the course of the last couple of years.
Of course, the sort of structure we had in place back then and the sort of playing squad we were able to assemble cost a lot of money and whilst hopefully we will at least have a far better infrastructure in place than we did back then I guess there just isn't the sort of money left anymore to try and attempt to remodel the club on similar lines this time around. We will just have to hope that Chris Hargreaves has the knack of finding some gems, diamonds in the rough, that we can develop and sell on for decent money ...but it won't be easy that's for sure.[/quote]
A very good post - you always manage to post what I think, so eloquently.
Like you may have thought - the last time we went down, it didn't even feel so bad to be down because Exeter were already there. Everything was exciting in a strange way. It almost felt like the Conference received more coverage than League 2 at the time. Getting promoted felt a little like getting promoted to obscurity.
I bought the Non-League Paper yesterday. Just to start getting used to teams and structures I hadn't thought about in years. It hasn't changed and it won't be long before our 5 years back in the league, are viewed in history as a bit of a blip, a spell of over achievement, in the way some of us perhaps feel when looking at historical league tables of Torquay's time in the old Division 3 in the 1960s.
Like Matt and one or two others have pointed out and suggest, the notion that being a league club is 'punching above our weight' is a misnomer, peddled by Mike Bateson for years to keep the masses happy with perennial struggling, a notion that was happily gobbled up because '[i]Mike saved the club'. [/i]
What it did do is sow the seeds for what has happened. Probably everyone knew that at some point we would go down again. Perhaps not in the wasteful, unnecessary way we have done. But our expectations have been so demeaned and dampened that avoiding relegation is now seen as success.
It never used to be this way. When I started watching Torquay, we were never troubled by the bottom 4 (applying for re-election, as it was known then), we were a mid-table (and had they existed) play-off position, challenging team. We may have had a reputation for being crap but essentially from the end of World War 2 and for the next roughly 45-50 years (bar 2 under Webb), until Bateson started lowering everyone's expectations, the thing we were not, was 4th divison fodder.
Finishing 17th, well clear of the bottom 4, in 1981, got Mike Green the sack. He'd get a medal nowadays for achieving such dizzy heights!!!!
It is not so much being in the Conference for the football and the teams, that bothers me so much, it is the lost funding that I fear and what that does long-term for the club. But then I suppose none of the other teams get it either and Torquay United should be one of the top 5/6 clubs in that league based on attendances, potential etc, so whilst there may be some novelty playing lots of new teams, it will soon wear off if we are under-performing - which, not challenging for the play-offs will certainly be.
But as CP Gull, puts it so well, the last time we were set up for it. We even had a General Manager in Darryl Batten - fresh from the Grand Hotel or somewhere. The whole set-up was in a different league to anything we had seen before. And whereas last time, we really did seem to be the big fish, glamour team of the division (or was that just the way Setanta made it seem?) it probably won't quite be so next year.
We'll see.
Certainly, there is a lot the club need to do to make me think of renewing my season-ticket. I seem to remember that the early-bird offer was extended last year but with it finishing in 11 days or so, there isn't going to be an enormous amount of time for fans to see enough intent from the club in terms of signings etc, to persuade fans.
The last thing I would want to do, is jump for the early bird offer and then find out that we cannot afford to sign anyone and the youth team will be playing.
