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Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 17:03
by torregull
Yellow6 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 16:12
And if Taunton and Truro win, at least a few of their games in hand, we are only one place or two above the drop. Desperate times.
Well they've got one easy one each- against us!
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 17:04
by wbw
Nothings changed since last month.....it was the notice of intention that triggered a 10 point deduction. The management committee of the league only meet once a month. As far as I am aware, the club is not yet in administration.
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 17:05
by TommyGunn
This also results in the Club being placed under a Player Embargo.
What a nasty final act from CO
https://www.devonlive.com/sport/sport-o ... er-9160211
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 17:09
by exilegull
TommyGunn wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 16:29
I'd like to know why the owner put us in this position? Did he not understand the rules?
Surely this makes the club less attractive to new owners?
Why did he not try to sell the club first before having this intention to appoint administartors???
Torquay United have been deducted ten points from the 2023/24 National League South table after the club submitted its intention to appoint administrators.
https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/na ... ited-80868
As soon as he starts a sale process where he will write off all debts the club owes him, he isn't going to put in more money just to have it written off. As soon he informs the directors he won't put in more money which the club is reliant on for its survival then they have no choice but to take this step otherwise they risk personal liability.
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 17:13
by exilegull
So you want him out, but you want him to keep putting more of his money in that he will lose while he tries to find a buyer?
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 17:24
by UnitedinDevon
wbw wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 17:04
Nothings changed since last month.....it was the notice of intention that triggered a 10 point deduction. The management committee of the league only meet once a month. As far as I am aware, the club is not yet in administration.
yes, thanks for stating the obvious
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 18:01
by wbw
UnitedinDevon wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 17:24
yes, thanks for stating the obvious
Except that numerous posters insisted that this was not the case and the 10 point deduction would only apply if and when the club went into administration.
It was not obvious to them, I'm afraid.
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 18:06
by Gloomy Gull
I have tried to take a rational and dispassionate view of the circumstances and please be aware I am not an advocate for Osborne or his track record.
Osborne was "gifted" the club by the financial ineptitude of the previous directors who failed/did not have the requisite skills to keep the finances in sufficient shape resulting in a possible Administration being perilously close with no other viable option.
Osborne, absolutely rightly, was called out on his sporting club history by many of the posters on this and other sites and almost immediately his ownership was met, understandably correctly, with significant suspicion and was believed to be a path to problems. These views were made quite vociferously at times.
The underlying burning desire to see him relinquish his ownership has continued throughout his tenure.
Osborne was clear from the get go that he had no interest in football and his desire to do to TUFC what he had done to numerous other sporting clubs regarding the premises they operate from was evident at an early stage. i.e. take control of Plainmoor. He has attempted to bring that to a conclusion that met with his plans on a number of occasions and has been thwarted by the council (thankfully).
BUT despite all the vitriol sent his way over that last few years he was still prepared to "gamble" monies, which may or may not be recovered, on achieving that goal. The offshoot of that action was to sustain TUFC as an operating club during those years - remember the impending Administration at the start.
He has now taken the business decision to cut his losses and step away from a potentially (in his strategy) profitable venture and supporters who did not want him to be the owner anyway, and in recent months have made that view heard louder and louder. The subject of whether he is able to recover any of the loan monies is unclear at this stage, but if Administration is the outcome, it is highly unlikely any repayment of those loans will be made.
Whilst I am devastated that the club I have supported for 60 years is now in a perilous position because of Osborne's actions I do, as someone who has been in the business environment for 40 years, understand why he has chosen to leave.
Perhaps, if he had not been vilified so hard for so long, he may have been more inclined to try to find a buyer rather than walk away from somewhere it was very clear didn't want him. Now we are wringing our hands at the outcome of the "campaign" to oust Osborne. The old adage of "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind here.
Even now he is being pilloried for doing exactly what has been called for by many for the last 5 years! I do not recall Thea receiving such responses when she too decided that she had put enough of her money into the club and walked away - and she loved the club - leaving us back at my opening point, impending Administration.
I do have faith that something recoverable will rise like a phoenix from the ashes and hope to God that the next incumbent to take on the club has only good intentions and believe that we, the supporters, should be focusing on a future rather than continuing to moan about what has happened.
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 18:11
by Owlgull
Vick wrote: ↑09 Mar 2024, 14:12
I really don't get the sudden decision to go the administration route. Why not just put the club up for sale without the added risk to the football club?
I have no doubt whatsoever, that the sole reason CO announced intention of going into administration rather than putting the club up for sale, was simply SPITE. Once he knew there was no chance of the council giving him the land he wanted, he no longer needed to pretend that our club mattered in any way. It was his chance to hit back at everyone within the club who had criticised him. What a low life.
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 18:17
by RedGull1902
Well we as supporters cannot do too much about the ownership of the club but as supporters we can be there for the fight for points to keep us up! I will be there Saturday against tonbridge so come on do you want this club going down? No, be there sat, someone will come in to purchase the club I have no doubt about that,so let’s do our bit!!!!!!coyy
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 18:22
by Owlgull
Forever Torquay Til I Die !
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 18:34
by exilegull
Gloomy Gull wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 18:06
I have tried to take a rational and dispassionate view of the circumstances and please be aware
I am not an advocate for Osborne or his track record.
Osborne was "gifted" the club by the financial ineptitude of the previous directors who failed/did not have the requisite skills to keep the finances in sufficient shape resulting in a possible Administration being perilously close with no other viable option.
Osborne, absolutely rightly, was called out on his sporting club history by many of the posters on this and other sites and almost immediately his ownership was met, understandably correctly, with significant suspicion and was believed to be a path to problems. These views were made quite vociferously at times.
The underlying burning desire to see him relinquish his ownership has continued throughout his tenure.
Osborne was clear from the get go that he had no interest in football and his desire to do to TUFC what he had done to numerous other sporting clubs regarding the premises they operate from was evident at an early stage. i.e. take control of Plainmoor. He has attempted to bring that to a conclusion that met with his plans on a number of occasions and has been thwarted by the council (thankfully).
BUT despite all the vitriol sent his way over that last few years he was still prepared to "gamble" monies, which may or may not be recovered, on achieving that goal. The offshoot of that action was to sustain TUFC as an operating club during those years - remember the impending Administration at the start.
He has now taken the business decision to cut his losses and step away from a potentially (in his strategy) profitable venture and supporters who did not want him to be the owner anyway, and in recent months have made that view heard louder and louder. The subject of whether he is able to recover any of the loan monies is unclear at this stage, but if Administration is the outcome, it is highly unlikely any repayment of those loans will be made.
Whilst I am devastated that the club I have supported for 60 years is now in a perilous position because of Osborne's actions I do, as someone who has been in the business environment for 40 years, understand why he has chosen to leave.
Perhaps, if he had not been vilified so hard for so long, he may have been more inclined to try to find a buyer rather than walk away from somewhere it was very clear didn't want him. Now we are wringing our hands at the outcome of the "campaign" to oust Osborne. The old adage of "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind here.
Even now he is being pilloried for doing exactly what has been called for by many for the last 5 years! I do not recall Thea receiving such responses when she too decided that she had put enough of her money into the club and walked away - and she loved the club - leaving us back at my opening point, impending Administration.
I do have faith that something recoverable will rise like a phoenix from the ashes and hope to God that the next incumbent to take on the club has only good intentions and believe that we, the supporters, should be focusing on a future rather than continuing to moan about what has happened.
Yes completely agree with this, I think this is 100% spot on. Osborne will lose a substantial amount of money here, money that has kept the club at a much higher level of resources than was likely under any other alternative and it was a penalty shoot out away from returning league status, which could have made viability without external support look different. Osborne can be blamed for he club languishing mid table in National League south only so far as he didn't sack Gary Johnson 15 months ago - it isn't for lack of resources.
A lot of people here seem to think there is some clever tax wheeze that will save him - there isn't. He might get some tax relief from writing off the loan, but it will be max 20% of the total amount written off.
No issue that people don't have any sympathy/gratitude for Osborne, he took a gamble that didn't pay off. However now whinging he is walking away and that leaves the club facing administration is hypocritical. There is no need for him to stave off administration by throwing money good money after bad, in what was purely a business transaction.
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 19:39
by CP Gull
Time for the Manager and players to stand up and be counted. Downes needs to start by dropping the “shrinking violets” in other words Tomlinson.Collins, Ash and even McGavin and replacing them with the likes of Marshall (crap though he is) Lapslie, W J-D, DOA and even Hall. We need to start making us difficult to beat first and foremost and solid (as we can be with this lot!) at the back and not playing such an open game, and change the attitude of thinking we are too good for this League …. we clearly aren’t! We need to scrap for every point now and with just 9 games left - but 6 of which are away- we need to turn around our dreadful away form which has been awful all season. Especially as we now know that our home form cannot be relied upon any more.
I also believe that after the initial “euphoria” of Osborne and Johnson going - the reality is beginning to hit home and sadly the prospect of Southern League football is now a very real possibility. It begs the question how much did Osborne or the directors know what the implications of this action were? Unfortunately, but predictably, neither the club or the local media made the fans aware of this outcome …. despite it being widely predicted on social media weeks ago. We can only hope that there is someone out there that can step in and save our club …. but it doesnt help when that idiot Richard Hughes at “Devon Live” firstly names Smurthwaite and Masters as two of the bidders - and then “disses” both of them as not wanted by Torquay fans? How does he know what TUFC fans think? I don’t know how many of them he knows … but I doubt it’s very many! He has been truly woeful in the whole reporting of the current situation … and wasn’t even alive to this possibility until the early hours of this morning… despite it being common knowledge on fans forums for over a week or more!
As for Smurthwaite …. well he did chuck a lot of money into the club initially and did win them a promotion before things unravelled. I believe that in the past he has said he wouldn’t be interested in a club that didn’t own the freehold of the ground ( for obvious reasons!) so the fact that he is even considering us is an interesting development in my opinion. If there is one thing we have learned after the Osborne disaster (and Chris Roberts before) we are not an attractive proposition for anyone who is simply looking to make money off of us as an “investment“
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 20:38
by Owlgull
Does anyone know whether this embargo will affect our 2 loan players? I know WJD is a season long loan, but Transfermarket shows Jude Boyd’s loan as finishing on 5th March, even though he’s still ( was ) here as of yesterday?
Points deduction
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 20:58
by CP Gull
I am struggling to understand those who continue to defend the Osborne/Johnson regime. Ultimately the FACTS speak for themselves- under the period of ownership/management we have ended up in the worst position the club has been in for close on 100 years. Seriously, how can anyone defend that ???? It has been a complete and utter disaster FULL STOP.