Torquay United Fans Forum

Hi To Bart

Yes I had the honour to meet you and your lovely lady at Priestfield. I am the guy who sat in front of you that you recognised from the TUFC website.

You are a true fan just hoping on to and off of a big bird to watch the Gulls

Good to know you.


Den

What do you expect when "Dead Brain" Mr Deadman officiates. He messes us up 95% of the games that he officiates for us. Just as well I did not go tonight - my well known hate of corrupt referees would find me having porridge for breakfast.

Then again, we still cannot score in a House of Disrepute I am totally feeling fed up with the wonderful game of football and the lack of ability of professionals to ear their sheckel of corn.

Den

Hi to Gullscorer and Kernowgull.
It was not a dig and I take the point on our lack of employment opportunities.I reiterate It was not a dig at anybody but merely an observation.
Isn’t the the UK generally in the doldrums with job opportunities with the cutbacks?
But that is another argument. The point was just underlining the raison d'etre ( how I wish there was an 'e circumflex' on this keyboard) -and the facts of life for a Davison 2 club. I applaud anyone who comes along to watch -but it was only an 'what if' scenario. In fact when I lived away in my youth I watched the Gulls when they were playing at any club near to where I lived in that time. Namely London and Salisbury.

We all spend our money as we want. There are many high unemployment areas in our fair land and they still support their local football clubs.

Even when I left school in the 60's Torbay suffered. We have always been an area lacking employment. But our gates were then 5,000 average going down gradually to 4,500 before the advent of Frank O' Farrell when we actually at just under 17,000 against the Orguile o boxing day.

My first match in 1959 cost me 1sh-3p. That is 6p in real money for a kid. When I left school in 1967 and I had to pay an adult figure. It was 2s-6p - 12.5p in modern dosh. My first wage packet was £27,67p in modern terms for a month's salary. How times change.

But today the spending patterns are different with the almost compulsory need for a mobile telephone / sky television / and other distractions for our money. We all have a certain amount of disposable income and we all have different levels of what is important for us. It is a matter of that old adage - ' You spends your money, you makes your choice.'.

In my case I am very fortunate that I am semi-retired and have rid myself of debts and mortgage - which limited me in the past. I now choose United to spend my money and savings on. I will continue in this vane while I am physically able to do so within the confines of my physical disability. When you reach my old age, I hope that you will be able to follow my dreams.

Quite soon I will be limited to home games only and then not so far in the distant I will become a fair weather supporter only when it will become a real effort and I join the TV armchair fans.

I am now getting ready to pick up my friend for this evening’s jaunt to St James’ Park.


Den
E. & O.E.

I am naturally disappointed that Eunan has moved on and drink a toast to him for his work at the club and wish him well and many years of success. Who can forget those two goals at home against the Pilgrims last season?
Just by way of an aside, I am on Matt’s side in this argument
Having read this topic you would realise why should GB win the Olympics for moaning and negative vibes that seem to be inherent in our fair land?
Some 50% of it seems to be generated with illogical rationale. I realise that in football terms it is to our detriment – but then there is the club and players needs and development.
Naturally we all want promotion but then we need to examine the finances involved and the costs to develop the ground and new training facilities. We do not have a multimillionaire sugar daddy, an oil rich sultanate etc. with bottomless pockets. When we get – and that is when and not if –we will need new players attracting higher wages and signing on fees.
What percentage of our revenue is spent on wages? Manchester City spent last season 119% of the income on players’ salaries. Now that is a lot of money – before extortionate transfer values. How many Premier Clubs are solvent? Probably 2 or 3. In Company terms that is a small number who actually exist properly. At least 30% survive on enormous loans underwritten by land assets or pledges from Owners. We can’t quite simply do this.
We therefore need to trade players – not just to survive but to realise not only the obvious, but the latent potential of our players to improve and develop their careers. So we need to recognise the player’s personal development and wishes. Over the years we have been a development club improving players and selling on at a profit.
Consider Martin Ling’s plans and erudite development of the club? He seems to be in control and probably has a contingency plan in place. He has said that he would not stand in any player’s way to develop their career if he thought that the move was right.
But then we have the belligerent ‘people’ called agents. They profess to only work in the interests of their clients and their career. Of course there is no interest in their own personal financial development what so ever is there?
I read that they consider their actions in football terms for their clients – the players. They try initiate moves for players – with a contractual clause saying if a bid of ’ £x ’ came in then a player should be released. Is that not a financial gain for Mr Agent? If only football agents could be confined to room 101!!
We have to be realists and appreciate that we support a club which to a larger degree is well managed within the confines of our limited income. If only we could get some supporters out of their armchairs on Tuesday evenings / Saturday lunch times and watch live football – instead of indulging in fantasy football of millionaire players in Europe or in the Premier league etc. Just imagine 1,000 extra fans. That would generate some £312,800 on a 23 league game season. But that for a number of social and economic reasons does not happen. But if we drew a top 6 premier league team in the FA cup some 3.500 extra fans would come out of the wood work- all die hard never miss a home game brigade – to watch that match!!
Maybe Mr Ling will use some of £175K to bring in a new player. I do wonder what happened to the £300K from Bobby’s sale. More than likely used for some of the previously mentioned asset developments? Who knows except for the inner sanctum of the participants at board meetings at the Shangri-La known as Plainmoor?
I am personally look forward to the new season and will again do some 10,000 plus miles following the lads plus another few thousands following my wife’s team when the Gulls do not have a game. Last year that was 14,221 miles normally with my very good friends Pete, Chris, Mike and well known bard Matt – a.k.a - FerrariLover!


Den

With out any shadow of doubt it was successful and enjoyable. I think at the end of the day with Rene's injury as well- we just ranout of steam

We are after all a Division Two Club over achieving on the second lowest budget in our league. We have been 'Bloody marvellous'. The squad is small and yet sometimes we have seen some breath taking footy. Well done to Martin and his staff.

Those who moan are the younger ones i.e. under 55 who were not brought up on a diet of wall to wall Premiership on the goggle box. When I was a teenager we had the Cup Final , The European Cup and the odd England match live on TV. That was it !! In 1962 the World Cup was shown from Chile - now that was living!

Then it was an honour for us kids to go along to Plainmoor with 8,000 gates and watch our heroes - or else we just played in the streets or parks.

But having come home and thoght about I have enjoyed this season, I have just watched the first half of the match on Sky, and the commentators thought that we had a superb first half and that we were unlucky plus hge plaudits for Brown was on top form in The Robin's goal.

Roll on August.

Den

P.S. I spoke to The Chairman on the way out and he agreed that we need more forwards. Yippee. Can't wait !!

Hi Matt

I appreciate your concerns, but where are these illustrious moneymen in our vacinity.

There is a dearth of them and God bless the ones we have. Without them there would be no United.

Perhaps our wonderful away support - which is superb for a club of our ilk in an economically bereft area - could help with a whip round to enhance our entertainment. As I said last night great defending from the back and great blocking by the midfield on the edge of the box.

See you laters


Den

I firstly apologise for this diatribe, but by way of being a very old ‘git’, I do care
My history with TUFC goes back to 1959 when I attended the first match with my granddad.
My Granddad who was then in his 50’s paid 2 shillings (10p) for his entry fee and mine was one shilling and three pence (7p). A programme was 2d (1p),and a bus fare from Shiphay to Plainmoor 6d (2.5p). The average working man’s wage was around £10.12/6 per week (10.62).
In those days enjoyed 6,000 + crowds. Then important matches, Boxing Day, Easter, and August Bank Holidays enjoyed even larger crowds. There was no New Years Day holidays then. I remember one Boxing Day in the mid sixties when there were 16,300 at Plainmoor to watch us play Argyle.
Also in those days Torbay was a very popular holiday area, and holiday makers quite often came along in August, September and May. This was before cheap package holidays overseas started in the mid 1960’s. This eroded the holiday trade where most secondary school pupils had summer jobs and unemployment was far less that the last 15 years.
Gradually the fan base dwindled to around 5,000 – and there was no live football other than the FA Cup Final or the occasional England International Match. Television until February 1963 was just one channel – BBC. ITV then came on line on that date before BBC2 joined in 1964 or 1965. We were almost the last area to receive ITV
There was no ne of European Distractions or the almost guaranteed menu of Manchester United / Chelsea to watch on the Television. If you wanted live football, you had to attend Plainmoor.
When I started in 1959 I was nine years old, and I can’t remember – or was I interested – who the Chairman was. I do know that Mr A J Boyce became Chairman in the early 60’s. I recall being relegated to Division 4 in my last year in junior and that I was sad.
We were a bit of a fortress at home in those days, but our away form was patchy. The gates went down to the 4,000 +.
During those days the deferential in Division One wages (now The Premiere) – was very small and all lower club managed to attract top players in the twilight of their careers. Today their wages are so high, they have no need to play at this level although they could probably buy the club for a play thing. In fact the players wages were not the very high values that today’s professionals enjoy. They were more closely aligned to a working class man.
Such players played for us such John Bond and Ken Brown of West Ham (the first an England B player, and the latter a full England Cap, George Allen Birmingham City.
Gordon Astall England Winger from Birmingham City, Dermot Curtis Eire Centre forward formerly of Ipswich Town, Robin Stubbs England U23,Jimmy Dunne Eire, Jimmy Holmes Eire, Tony Currie England, Tony Brown England, and Mike Filliery Chelsea.
Of course we enjoyed some high profile Cup Games – one memorable match against Tottenham once in 1965 when 21,000 packed into Plainmoor. We had to come to watch Welton Rovers in a Reserve game to get a ticket for that one. Over 6,000 turned up – some bought the tickets and went home – some stayed – but God didn’t it rain that day we all got soaked!
We were promoted again in my 4th year at Grammar school to Division 3.
Then in 1967 Frank O’ Farrell took over and we enjoyed quite a few weeks in the top two or three in Division Three (now Division 1). Crowds were often 7000 plus and once we were the only match on Match of The Day when we beat Bury to go top of the League. That day there were over 10,000 in the ground. We also had Friday Night Football – which was great and gave the local footballers a chance to attend and still play for their teams on the weekend.
But Mr O’Farrell after a few great seasons left for Leicester City.
We gradually slipped away then – and wages got better in the higher divisions, package holidays lot us summer time support. We moved towards 1973/4 winter of discontent.
The fall from grace is down to a number of items:-
1 Loss of holiday trade and higher unemployment – leaving less excess income available to pay to watch our wonderful game
2. The almost nightly menu of live football on television.
3 No longer attracting Premiership players due to their wealth and lack of need to carry on playing. This was quite exciting then to see the famous names plying their trade at our level. I do remember a former England Centre forward – Roy Bentley – playing against us for QPR at fullback!
4. The relationship between the cost of entry and take home pay wages. In the past football was less expensive. When I worked in London in 1973 I earned £1,800 per year – about £35.00 per week and took home about £28,00 per week. I used to watch Arsenal and the entrance to Arsenal was 30p!
5. General inflation and the fear of the future with job losses, nil bank interest receipt – well virtual.
6. High housing costs in comparison to income between then and now.
7. Ridiculous energy costs.

There you have it with apologies

Den

Hi Matt

Our old grandstand was bought for £150.00 second hand , having been dismantled at Buckfastleigh Racecourse and reassembled in time for TUFC’s first ever Football League Match against Exeter City.
The roof was completely blown off during the winter of 1930 It was replaced so my Dad told me with either galvanized or asbestos sheets
Matt, you are too young to remember but you know that 10th May 1985 saw the disaster which upset all fans nationwide when the Bradford City stand burnd down with many many casualties = 56 deaths and over 265 injured.
Well 6 days later Plainmoor old stand was burned down – well one third of it. No one was hurt , it was in the morning during working time. Very strange there was nobody around and the cause was never found.
There were some legends told that the Manager wanted some insurance for new players. Purely a myth!
But when that manager became the new owner of Yeovil Town, I remember a certain builder who stands with us said ‘Well he can’t burn down a concrete stand!!’
That is purely another myth of course !

Den

Two years a go , it was quoted in the News of The World Football Annual that Danny Stephens was a wapping 5 foot 10 inches.

Last year he shrunk to 5 foot 1 inch.

Now under the remarkable Dinger coaching - which must include sleeping in a moist Greenhouse under lights - he has grown to 5 foot 10 inches again distributed on a frame weighing 11 stone 7lbs.

Now that is a result in 4 weeks of training.



The source of this data is TorquayUnited.com.??



http://www.torquayunited.com/page/Profi ... 47,00.html

Well done Dinger !!!


Den

Chris

I would like to think that he want's to know who he will have the pleasure of applying his silky skills for - and if HE IS A FOOTBALLING MANAGER.

I saw him play many times for Exeter and Swindon, and he was a very good attacking winger with an eye for goal.

I have talked to a friend who was regular at Brisbane Road, and he said that he was always trying to play attacking football.

I live in hope - AND LET'S GIVE HIM A CHANCE. He may be great.

See you next season


Den

Hi Matt

If you get the information of that file, any chance of forwarding to me ! Ta! I will not make a fee !!

Your Ma has my email address I think.

Cheers

Den

I'll be going with my mate Pete - having not missed any game home or away this season.

Not quite sure if it's my Qashqai or Christine's Honda.

See you all there

Surely we will not draw again. I live in hope


Den

All we seem to be worried about is the one point deduction.

Have we forgotten about the £10K ? Unfair has it appears- it is a fact and to appeal would probably be futile in my mind - which I mention later in this missive.

Someone has to stump up to pay this. Not us the fans, but the hard stretched coffers of the Club - or a kitty from the directors. We already suffer with a reduced player budget, and the home gates fall well short of the running costs of the club. So I have a suggestion.

Could we not have covered buckets at a match asking us the supporters to stump up some cash ?

OK - it is not our fault or problem. But it would be showing a tremendous support for the club if we contributed to the problem and can forget about the £10k ,

On a gate of 2,500 @ £4.0 each would do it.

Or 20% of the said home gate - @ £20.00 per person that would clear it.

Any surplus over the £10K - now I am dreaming - could be donated to the Trust fund - which would benefit the club.

I mentioned to my fellow travelling supporter Pete this afternoon - and he said he would cough up.

I have only missed 2 games home and way in 4 years - I had pneumonia that fortnight! - but my weekly spend for an away match far exceeds £20.00 and I certainly would dig deep to support my club.

I am not in agreement with an appeal, since the general malaise handed down by the Legislators when dealing with these matters, they almost invariably add to the punishment- almost to say 'what a sauce for the audacity that you dare appeal against us , your learned superiors of high intellect!'

We would be far from happy if on the 4th May they made it impossible to move on to the play-offs .

Any comments than S!d - off!


Den

According to The Bradford City Fans website, they are expecting us to loose 3 points. On what authority does Judge Jefferies decide that?

Here is the link
[url]


http://www.boyfrombrazil.co.uk/2011/02/ ... red-player

What a sauce


Den